And they lost a structure, which is the goal of the wardec, sounds like its working as intended
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Yes, haven’t disagreed with that. Just lamenting that the whole mechanics are part of the trend of making the game softer and fairer.
It is what it is, just not part of what I originally fell in love with about the game. I still love EVE, but it’s softer and fairer on us all. I wish it wasn’t.
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So the ballpark this morning is:
267 wars
88% started by 2 groups
That being said, a lot of the wars are mutual which is great but were not filtered out of these numbers so…big grain of salt. Going to try to find a better way to tallying these…
Harsh can still be fair. For example, if the WarDec system adopted a harsh sliding scale, most likely the big corps would chop-up their orgs into small localized cells. So while you wouldn’t be dealing with a NE spanning corp’ wardec, you would still have to contend with the local branch. A much smaller branch but still a very competent opponent. I think that would be a much better option for the “little guys” than what we have now. Still harsh but fairer and that is the point of all this.
Keep the risk (station/ships going boom)
Keep the reward (station bonuses)
But the scale is way smaller for that war
Figures from the ESI have it slightly different (taken from 11 hours ago):
| Date | 2019-06-09 12:08:29 |
|---|---|
| Total Wars | 403 |
| Active Wars | 388 |
| Declared (not yet active) | 15 |
| Wars with Kills | 88 |
| Unique Aggressors | 102 |
| Unique Defenders | 327 |
| Mutual | 7 |
| Open of Allies | 48 |
Most wars by the top 10 groups:
| Most Agrressive Groups | |
|---|---|
| Corp/Alliance | Number of Wars |
| PIRAT | 163 |
| Jedi Knight Meditation Universe | 30 |
| L E G I O N | 10 |
| Hell House | 8 |
| Vastly Outnumbered | 6 |
| Aporkalypse Now | 6 |
| Perimeter Police Department | 6 |
| Hog Hitmen | 6 |
| Pandemic Horde | 6 |
| Church of Kuvakai | 5 |
That puts the top 2 with 50% of the wars.
Still worse than pre-change.
I’m only going back to the 1st of the month though as some of the war are years old so my numbers will be off from yours.
Thanks again for those numbers.
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If you would actually think beyond the end of your thoughts, which end at where you believe that you have figured it all out and don’t require to be using your brain any further …
… then you’d come to the conclusion that when both sides choose to opt out of requiring a structure, then they’re in for actually fighting others instead of just structure bashing.
The reason for this is that they have volunteeringly chosen to not use a structure and the only sane reason for that is because they want to fight others without being reduced to stupid structure bashers.
Everyone who chooses to opt-in to wardecs, without structures, must be willing to fight others who lack a structure due to the fact that it’s not actually possible to not opt-in into this without being aware of the fact that there is NO structure.
It would be for everyone who wants to fight others without requiring a structure and fighting would be limited to those who opt-in to War without a structure.
The fact that I have to spell it out for you should ■■■■■■■ embarrass you!
Are you braindead?
No?
Are you, Salvos?
Balos?
Naarian?
Dracvlad?
No?
Then use your ■■■■■■■ brain for thinking!
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Yes and those are called MUTUAL WARS, you know, that feature we ALREADY HAVE
These wars don’t require a structure, they don’t require a monthly fee, they only require 2 parties willing to shoot each other
No i already spelt it out to you, IF you want a war WITHOUT a structure, start a mutual war, if you want to wardec anyone you like without needing a mutual war then you pony up a structure, do you turn up to a street race without a car? do you turn up to a tennis match without a racket? do you turn up to a golf match without clubs?
No?
Then take your own damn advice and use your brain, if you want to play in the big pool you pay the same entry fee as everyone else, if you want a war without structures just to shoot at each other then you start a mutual war or join FW, the only embarrassing thing here is you not understanding this simple fact
You might want to consider using your own brain in this case
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" and there isn’t much at all that defenders can do "
Well if the pain of the defenders is big enough they can always try to mobilize other small groups and work toghether i’m pretty sure they can field way more than the “big Merc group” like everything in eve it comes whit some effort. Also the defender has 2 options merge into other small groups and be BIG our make sure you don’t have structures…
@Solstice Projekt…
Guys like you simply fail to understand how pvp has changed in modern mmog.
Simply learn to live with it,or fail and start beeing salty in your vintage view to pvp.
Bittervet or not the changes that were made were a reaction to the reality,some that you may fail to recognize or understand but that is just your problem,not the one of ccp nor that of other players that got the message.
Yeah, although as an aside, there must be some other use of mutual wars going on also, that isn’t immediately obvious.
In the last 4000 wars, there have been 70 mutual wars entered into and not a single one of them has any kills at all.
The only thing I can think of is that some haulers have started declaring mutual wars between their own alt corps to make webbing easier (be at war instead of dueling), but that also means their hauling alts are in Corps that are war eligible, which is counter to normal.
It’s a practice that is only recent, so the only thing that makes any sense, unless there is some other use of mutuals that involves no aggression at all.
Unfortunately the structure is the goal because there can’t really be any other goal anymore.
It’s a shame that having a personal beef with someone or making people put their money where there mouth is no longer a thing in hisec. That’s where the content was.
Because there never was a goal, wars in high sec served no real purpose other than to grief people
Yeah that was never really a thing, people could dodge wars until the cows came home before so all it did was keep people in NPC corps for a short while, if you look at my employment history you’ll notice i didged every single “war” pointed at me while laughing to the bank
Wasn’t exactly engaging gameplay 
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Not true.
Wars were used to allow pvp between two corps and that is ALL it is for. It accomplished that.
The reason someone might have for deccing was for whatever reason anyone liked, like ganking or anything in eve. It wasn’t a grief tool anymore than gate camping or goons burning down panfams home.
You literally cannot grief or harass someone with a wardec since anyone in a position to be decced has put themselves there to begin with . Do i need to link it again?
Well obviously not.
Was 100% of hisec players in npc corps 10 years ago? No. Otherwise how were there decs?
Did everyone dodge wars? No. Otherwise how were there kill mails?
You may have dodged wars. But clearly not everyone is like you. Wars were actually a good way for new players to try out pvp in a controlled environment.
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No, the overwhelming majority of high sec wars were grief wars, i mean you can disagree all you like but the fanfest slide is already in this thread proving it
It was a greif tool in a good 80% of cases, those wars weren’t there to serve any kind of purpose other than to try and pad killboards, i mean you’re arguing against literal facts here
Only in so much as the only requirement to be decced was to not be in an NPC corp lol, you either opted in to wars or opted out of playing with other players properly, hence why it was changed to require a structure, so yes NOW anyone who can be decced has put themselves in that position and now you can dec them to your hearts content, but under the old system they were grief wars like it or not, i already linked the slide showing that
Yes and most of those were wars to try and shoot haulers, trust me i’ve been on both ends of them 10 years ago lol, i mean if you’re genuinely blind ignorant enough to think the old system was good then i more than welcome the salty salty tears you’re raining down in this thread, it was not a good system by any means as it was literally preventing people from actually enjoying the social side of the game, and thats the part that actually keeps people playing
No, they were a good way to get killed without any experience in an entirely one sided battle, if you want a structured PvP experience you join RvB or EVE-Uni, the old war system didn’t promote any kind of meaningful experience and it just chased players away because they were literally unable to defend themselves against wars while still playing with friends within a corp
At the end of the day this is a good change no matter how much it upsets you because unlike you i can appreciate that fresh blood is about the only thing that will keep EVE going long term, and if it costs us people like you then i would just consider that a bonus
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No there isn’t. Watch it again. No mention of grief wars.
Then whats ganking? Whats null sec wars? What’s ninja-salvaging?
Wardeccing, even to pad your killboard, is not griefing. You have your facts confused with pure knee jerk responses and emotional rhetoric.
Link it again please. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t say wardeccers are griefers, or wardeccers are just padding kill boards or anything like that.
It was also possible to socialise with others outside of a corp. You could be in chat channels, join fleets, be in a mailing list etc etc
The only thing you needed a corp for was corp tax, hangars, shared killboard and structures.
But again, you’re talking to the biggest supporter of social corps on these forums. I’ve been supporting it louder than anyone else since it was first suggested over half a decade ago.
We’ve just done it wrong that’s all and the game is suffering because of it.
What’s wrong with shooting haulers? If i shoot a hauler in low sec it’s fine? If i gank one it’s fine? If i give someone 24hrs notice and shoot their hauler in hisec im a griefer?
Wardecs were a social thing unto themselves. War targets spoke to eachother and interacted. Made deals, stabbed eachother in the back and taught eachother harsh lessons on game mechanics.
You’re very naiive if you think people are more sociable now than when they were when wardecs were more common.
Can’t be true either.
The height of eve activity was when wars cost 2mil, the defenders had no allies and anyone in a player corp could be targeted.
Believe me, reaching out to players to make non-aggression pacts or RR treaties was a lot more important when wardecs were way more common. And the game was a more sociable for it. You got to know your neighbours because you kinda needed to.
Except it hasn’t.
After wardec nerfs in 2012, player activity went…down.
After wardec nerfs in 2015, player activity went…down.
After wardec nerfs this winter just gone, players activity went…yup that’s right, down.
People always saying that nerfing wardecs will bring in more new players and save the game. But despite all these nerfs it has yet to become true.
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Or it might have been from making the game too easy in just about every aspect. Exploration for example. I know you think you are Mr PVP here but there is a lot of poor management involved and PVP was not the only thing they screwed up.
And?
Cypherous is saying it was a good change, it’s going to bring new players.
Well…where are they then?
I mean, eve was growing before the wardec nerfs. Players new and old were happy…
That is not the same thing. Mutual wars are if both parties agree to the wardec. If I have a wardec toggle I can be wardeced by anyone without any further consent.
That is an extremely important difference. I would like my corp being able to be wardeced without further consent. The enemy does not need to know I have no structure.
Making your enemy believe he has the control is an important part of this game.
The fact that i have to link this single slide again is just stupid lol
Most wars were made against targets that had NO way of defending themselves and didn’t do anything other than form a corp, you can disagree all you like but the facts are literally there in black and white, it was causing people to avoid the actual social aspect of EVE by staying in NPC corps to avoid grief decs, war served no real purpose in 99% of wars perviously and there was no goal and there was no way for the defender to even have a way of ending it and they were literally at the mercy of someone pressing the “pay bill” button, now you have to opt-in by deploying a station which means you have the means to defend it, having a war HQ also means you have a way of ending your war if you’re able to destroy it
Sure you might not be able to buy atleast you have an option other than hoping they get bored and stop paying the bill
Ganking has a punishment, yes someone dies but so does the ganker, its not someone getting away with killing you without any consequences, come on you should be smart enough to work this ■■■■ out if you play EVE
Null sec doesn’t require a war system, you’re free to shoot who you want, in null you’re fighting over territory, you’re not claiming systems in high sec lol
Salvaging is a profession, there isn’t any “ninja” in it, salvage doesn’t belong to anyone hence the lack of criminal flag for salvaging, this is a really old subject, are you sure you actually play this game at all?
I did, but you can go and look at the whole presentation if you want, it explains it in more detail and why the system was being changed
Sure, but that doesn’t change that you lose access to things like corp hangars, a shared corp wallet and an actual banner to fly under, might not mean much to you ofc 
Then i fail to see how you would be against protecting them from being griefed, you claim one thing yet counter that argument entirely with another, show some consistency
You’re griefing with all 3 of them, the difference is there are consequences for ganking and people have to opt-in to entering low sec so they are aware concord won’t help them, with wars you’re just marking them as free to kill anywhere regardless of the actions those players take and without any consequences whatsoever, if you can’t see the problem with this then you’re a lost cause
It being the height of activity doesn’t make it a good thing, the height of activity for producing weapons was world war 2, i think we can all agree that doesn’t indicate that producing lots of weapons was a good thing
Going to have to agree to disagree, you don’t have access to the stats on new players joining the game and CCP does, and considering those are the bottom line they are making changes that prevent people from chasing them away just for joining a corp to learn the game
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