Well it’s good that you are wanting to learn unlike most freighter pilots I see on ZKill. There are multi-billion ISK freighters getting popped left and right because of sheer laziness (auto-pilot) or sheer stupidity (high value/untanked)…
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Depends what ship those guys are in, if they are in heavy stuff that takes long to warp a macherial can just keep bumping it until gank ships arive, if its a smaller ship then they did something wrong by not warping fast enough off gates or by not landing 0 on station, if your in a fast ship its possible to be 100% safe if your doing everything perfectly, until your power cut’s or you dc while your crossing through Uedama then your dead xD
LOL, yeah. Just don’t ever fly through Uedama, Niarja, or Jita and you’ll be relatively safe…
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Don’t forget tama 
ahh the good old days. A friend: “guys i’m carrying my loot in an inti think ill be safe through tama? 5 sec later splat dead xD smart bombed to oblivion.”
Well… I’m not posting with my main account for a reason XD
Really? I thought that people being in game long enough to have that kind of money would know not to do that.
Then again, that makes me thing about how the tutorial is actively trying to kill you by continuously advising to use the autopilot.
Rancer too! Avoid there.
That said, salvage? The best advice was to fly discretely. You are better off in say a Vexor or other cruiser fit for a normal mission/PvP fit. Most people won’t look twice at t1 cruise just passing by.
And again, break up the load. Take a day to haul smaller amounts to Jita to sell.
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TBH from all the freighter kills iv seen, its all of the freighters that don’t have 3x reinforced bulkheads fitted, max tanked freightors don’t seem to be ganged much unless they are ridiculously pricy.
Hold on a second though:
how does a cargo scanner work?
Does it tell you the content only at the end of a cycle?
Because if it does, the cycle is 5 seconds, which means that I should be gone before the module is done scanning. If I just jump from gate to gate, I should be visible just for the time it takes me to warp, is that correct?
At that point, wouldn’t the only risk be to die to a random smartbomber?
Well, I guess it’s the best way to be safe. As Makshima Shogo said, maybe I could also hoard it in a quieter system not too far from Jita and then contracting someone to bring it there.
Still, for the Vexor part, I was asking if there was possibly a way to do this without couning on people not noticing you.
Ok… So basic math… A Tornado kicks out about 10k damage per volley and can get 1 to 2 vollies in a .5 system so say 15k damage.
So take your EHP, divide it by 15k. That is an approximate estimate of the number of tornados it takes to kill you.
Multiply that number by 70 mil as each tornado cost about 70 million oak. That is the cost to gank you.
Divide the value of your cargo by 2, as the loot fairy says items have a 50% chance to drop. That value is the approximate isk a ganker can make killing you.
So if the value a gankers can make is more than the cost of the tornados, you risk being ganked.
Yes gankers use bombers, catalysts, and other ships. Still this basic formula seems to work well enough.
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My hauler alt flies T1 industrials, makes regular runs through Forge, Lonetrek, Citadel and Sinq Laison, and has only been hi-sec ganked once – in Josameto.
That gank happened to be the only time I was ever autopiloting with any significant cargo. Coincidence? I think not.
So first thing: don’t autopilot with gank-worthy stuff in your hold. Ever.
IMO your biggest risk is on station undock, so the insta-undock bookmark is crucial if you’re leaving a trade hub with valuable stuff. If you’re empty, no worries.
Second biggest risk is on station dock, so instadock bookmark is helpful, too.
Third biggest risk is at gates. Learn the Afterburner/warp trick if you’re flying a slow-aligning ship like a Tayra – ensures your maximum align time is about 8 seconds.
That said, I hauled for months before learning those tricks, and it wasn’t a big deal. I tended to leave the hub empty and return full, so insta-undock didn’t matter. And I’ve never been ganked on hub approach, even when the game drops me 1500m from the station. I just hit the afterburner and reached the station in a few seconds.
Also, remember that gankers can suffer from information overload at a hub like Jita. I’ve sometimes moved extremely valuable cargo in a Merlin, because who is going to bother cargo-scanning a Merlin amid dozens of other ships? Could happen, but usually they’ll scan the bigger fish first. Shuttles seem to be an exception: I guess people routinely move enough valuable stuff in shuttles that they get special attention.
In terms of fit, it depends on what you’re doing. My “regular” hauling ship is a small, fast tanked T1 freighter with some inertial stabs. It has enough cargo space to handle 90% of my hauling needs, enough tank to take a few volleys, and aligns in 6.5 seconds.
I also have a larger T1 fitted for max cargo. They say “never fit for max cargo”, but all I ever use it for is hauling bulk items like Tritanium and structure modules that would be tedious or impossible to haul in my main ship. It’s just not a gankworthy target.
I fly through Uedama regularly. Yes, it’s occasionally filled with gankers. But I’ve never been bothered. Hell, I flew my regular routes during Burn Jita this year, and the only problem I had was lag. I think they look at my boring little freighter and think “too small to bother with.”
Or else I’m the luckiest pilot in space.
I’m looking at that Orca pilot… and I’m pinching the bridge of my nose asking the ever important question in frustration. WHY?
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Each race has at least 2 types of haulers, (a few have some more more specialized haulers) one is slow, has low HP, and can hold more cargo (Bestower, Tayra, Iteron Mark V, Mammoth). This type I’d say is okay for hauling some cheap bulk goods.
The other is faster, can fit a tank, but has less cargo (Sigil, Badger, Nereus, Wreath). Using the second type of hauler you can pretty safely move some small higher value loot around, and fit some sort of tank. A large shield extender, damage control, and a few hardeners will give you the survivability to fend off a ganker or two. Of course if you go too over the top a dedicated team can get you. With the shield buffer you can probably fit a few cargo expanders and stay safeish.
Note that cargo expanders have a HP penalty on them. The lowslot module reduces structure HP, and the rig reduces armor HP. So fitting all slots with expanders can greatly hurt your HP. Many people call them anti-tank modules, and a fit that completely maximizes cargo is very easy to kill.
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Logically this would make sense, but iv had it where a thrasher and tornado have only had 1.5 seconds to lock scan my cargo and kill me and they did so there must be a way to get that scanning down quick enough, unless ofc they scanned me many jumps away which isnt logical either because I think i had a 4 sec align time ship at that time 3.7 or something.
They can use thrasher’s which can do the same damage at about 6-7 mil or something like that so all depends how well the ganking party is setup.
Ok this is weird. I’ve looked up the Cargo Scanner II and it has a 3 seconds activation time. So shouldn’t it be able to scan ships that warp in 4 seconds or more?
Also, why do you say they had only 1.5 seconds to point you?
Anyway, your story is an example of why I made this thread: I read some stuff that makes me think I’d be entirely safe (as in it would be mechanically impossible to lock and scan me, or to lock and point me) but at the same time I read of episodes like this and I get confused.
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I think the gankers usually use instalock ships to scan you a few jumps out. Gives them time to organize the gank. I’m not sure is things like ReSeBos speed up scan time?
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Ok, I’ve found this graph from uniwiki: http://eve.501gu.de/misc/travelceptor_vs_instalocker.png
Basically you can get scrambled if the ganker has an instalock ship, is able to locate you very fast and has low latency.
It seems like he’d need to be able to do all these things in less than one seconds:
- Receive notfication from the server that you have decloaked,
- Find you on grid (so his reaction time comes into play)
- Move his mouse to your ship and issue the “lock target” command
- Complete lock-on.
Considering how crowded the road to Jita is, I guess latency and sheer amount of ships passing through gates each moment would make finding you hard. Also it seems like latency doesn’t affect the traveler, only the ganker.
Hm, makes me think some ships would be actually safer during events such as burn Jita, simply due to lag.
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Blockquote
Note that cargo expanders have a HP penalty on them. The lowslot module reduces structure HP, and the rig reduces armor HP. So fitting all slots with expanders can greatly hurt your HP. Many people call them anti-tank modules, and a fit that completely maximizes cargo is very easy to kill.
True, but for some small T1s, fitting cargo rigs isn’t a big hit because they have so little armor to begin with. The Badger, for instance, has 750HP in armor; fitting three cargo rigs drops that to about 650, and the hit can be even less with the right skills. That 100HP isn’t going to make much difference, survival wise, especially if you go heavy on shield tank. And it gives you significantly more cargo room.
Everything in EVE is a tradeoff, of course. There will come a day when I die because I didn’t have those extra HP. But meantime, I save a ton of flying time by being able to carry more per trip.
If you make it unprofitable to gank (aka: tank) this will basically ensure your survivability.
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I guess this one was just too pricey?
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Of course the best way to reduce gank risk is to create a courier contract and put a collateral on it, that way you make money if the hauler gets ganked. Of all my courier contracts I only ever lost one to a gank, but hey 3 days later I got to collect the collateral.
But I don’t know how contracts work on alpha. also I kinda assumed that as an alpha most of your cargo would be low value enough that using a tanked t1 industrial would be fine.
yep, which is why I never fly those, if something looks at it funny it explodes. Maybe if you are moving tritanium or cap boosters the value is low enough it’s not worth it, but it very quickly gets into profitable to gank territory.
Indeed, a 10bil freighter is a whale. Years ago the break even for a freighter was around 1bil in loot, but that was before they added slots to freighters, and resists to structure HP. Of course if you go full expanders that makes it easier to gank and full bulkheads makes it harder.
For a full tanked freighter like the one linked they brought 7 bombers + 12 talos assuming 50mil for a bomber and 100mil for a talos that’s 350m in bombers and 1.2bil in taloses. that puts the break even at ~3bil in cargo.
for a good chance at profit they need even more in cargo. 10bil is a great chance at profit.
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