Web, Painter or Computer

What is the priority order for fitting ? Assuming you want to be inside normal web range (10km) and are using guns and drones ? The Idea is to minimize misses.

From:

  • Target Painter
  • Stasis Web
  • Tracking Computer (w/ tracking script)

If multilple of the same used again which ones to prioritize ?
Anyting else I am forgetting ?

Thanks

Within 10km
Web
Painter
Comp
In that order

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more explanation :
assuming the target is orbiting you (and you are webbed so you can’t force its trajectory), and assuming you are in optimal range, your goal here is to maximize your ratio : proximity = tracking * distance * sig / speed . it’s speed and not transversal because we assume the target is orbiting you.
web 60% :

  1. a 60% web reduces the speed by 60%, so multiplies speed by 0.4, hence multiplies your precision by 2.5
  2. a second 60% web is 0.869 effectiveness, so the multiplication oif precision is only 100/(100-60 * 0.869 ) = 2.089
  3. third 60% web is 0.571 effectiveness, so precision mult is 1.5211
  4. 4th web is 0.283 eff, so precision mult = 1.2045

painter

  1. a painter max skill is +38% sig so precision mult = 1.38
  2. 2nd painter is (100+38 * 0.869)/100 = 1.3302
  3. 3rd paitner is 1.217

TC

  1. a tracking computer T2 is 30% tracking mult so precision mult is 1.3
  2. 2nd tracking computer is ( 100+30 * 0.869) /100 = 1.26
  3. 3rdd tracking computer is ( 100+30 * 0.571) /100 = 1.1713

Basically 3rd web is still better than painter, which is better than computer. so ordered modules :

  1. web
  2. web
  3. web
  4. painter
  5. painter
  6. tc
  7. tc
  8. painter
  9. what ship are you using ?
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Added benefit of first two also include affecting your drones too for example no need to pull heavy drones in for flight of lighter ones if you have web on target.
Also other party share benefits like fleet members.

made a few tests with my Golem on the Trigs and it has shown that the only “double” that is effective is a Tracking/Missile Guidance Computer with Tracking Speed/Precision Script

This Combo is the most Effective:
Target Painter
Grappler
Missile Guidance Computer (or Tacking Computer)

Exchanging any of those with another TP, Grappler or MGC does not work for more damage, it is even less. An additional 2nd MGC works wonders and gives a huge boost in damage

As an aside, Triglavian destroyers (and bigger) and other entities orbit at/over 14k , making the web unavailable. If you can guarantee the range is going to remain under 10k, then go with the choices and excellent reasoning above. I am using a web and TP so that at least the TP affects past the range of the web. Making both modules faction, allows for 41% TP (1.41) and web can be overheated , making it available for a short time to slow down those longer orbiting ships. Not as good as 2 webs within range, but at least partially useful all the time.

Missiles are very different from turret.

The main reason, is that the application formula is linear with the evasion and not exponential.
The second reason, is that the signature ratio can compensate the speed ratio, but not the opposite. so if I use a 110 m/s missiles against a target going 165 m/s, using one web will reduce the target speed below the missile explosion speed, and thus multiply the application by ±1.5 , even if the target sig is much lower than the explosion sig ; on the other hand one faction painter on the golem would multiply the application by 1.62 , up to 1.
Then if you use rigs like calefaction II + flare II the speed is even less an issue,so painter is better (because the speed reduction is lower)

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faction webs go further ; and the skirmish boosters can give web range (17km? with fed web)

Thanks for the precise answer.

As what ship I am flying: I am flying several ones.
Since last time I played (years ago) the gunnery mechanisms have changed I just wanted to know what to prioritize on fittings now.

Are your painters TII or William Painters?

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They have not changed at all.
What changed is the value or optimal sig for turrrets : all turret have been set to 40 000 m signature, so that you can compare the tracking between turrets of different sizes now…

Golem has bonuses that help other forms of damage application. So of course you usally want to boost those.

In general with no bonus to a form of damage application Anderson had it correct, 3 webs being best within range.

As always it will depend on your ship, skills, and what you are doing to determine best mods for damage application. Firing at long range with guns or sentries I never need anything for damage application, as targets are almost headed straight for me. Missiles at range are different. They will need TP or MGC or both.

Check any bonuses on your ship. eg. Golem = Target painters all the way.

Missiles you better going GC, before web and TP.

GC with precision script decrease explosion radius and increase explosion velocity. While TP only effects sig and Web only velocity. And with missiles you need both.

As Missiles never miss (well unless target gets out of missile range), the key is to get as much damage on target. This is worked out by target sig vs missile explosion radius, and velocities.

Larger the target sig is vs lower explosive radius more missile damage is applied.

Missile will only ever do 100% damage, never more like turrets can, so if more of the explosive radius fits within the target sig the better the damage, if the target sig is smaller than explosive radius then damage is reduced.
The TP help be increasing target sig sjze. As does target using MWD.

Velocities is an added thing, this is the chance a ship could reduce damage by escaping the blast of the missile. This is where the precision script comes in, as it speeds up the blast velocity (as well as noted above dcreases the raduis) with a web you can slow the target down to allow the faster blast hit the target.

So as others say the TP and Web are great, with missiles they are more an added bonus to a GC with precision script. Even though the GC with script offer a lower bonus compare to the Web or TP, its bonus is allowed to both areas and to all missile targets, while TP and Web only effects a single target.

no you don’t.

Sig is a limiting factor, and it compensates the speed, while speed does not.
If your target is half as big as your explosion radius, and twice as fast as its explosion velocity, it will take circa 1/4th the damage (more for precision, and small missile types). Assuming a drf of 1 (so application is linear with the precision/evasion ratio)

  • If you web it -90% speed , it still takes only 1/2 the damage.
  • If you paint it +900% size, there it takes full damage.

(actually since the effect is usually not linear with the precision / evasion ratio, those numbers are incorrect, but since the application is increasing with this ratio my example is correct : you will deal more damage in the second case)

That’s why rigor is often better than flare, even if rigor takes more calibration.

Also the effect of painter stacks with eg a rigor (or two) while GC is penalized (for the sig part).
Typically if you have two rigors , and you want two more mods for the application :

  • GC : the -16.5 explosion bonus becomes -9.42 for the first, and -4.6% for the second, while the velocity remains +16.5% for the first and 14.34 for the second.
    resulting in a total gain of precision / evasion ratio of (100+16.5)×(100+14.34)÷(100−9.42)÷(100−4.6) = 1.5415 ( = +54.15% precision so up to +54.15% DPS on the target)
  • painter : one painter alone gives +38% signature, the second one +33%, total +83.6% sig on the target.

Using two painter instead of two scripted GC therefore gives +19.1% precision so up to +19.1% DPS.
Of course if you can use faction painter the result is even bigger.

For longer range however this changes. There is no point in shooting further than your target range, therefore in some cases you can use an unscripted GC to reach targeting range, while also providing a bit of application. Plus the effectiveness of target painters is limited in range, while gc can go as far as your missiles reach.

TLDR : use painters for close range, GC for longer range, grappler + painter+ scram + rigors with torpedoes.

For the cost i’ve personally found running twin Guidance Computers with both range and precision scripts allows me to have warp in at range and engage multiple targets at range, once targets reach normal missile range i switch to precision scripts to get higher damage.

No matter how good TP or Webbers are, you’re limited to one target per TP or Web, and you are also limited to missile default range.

I know people will say otherwise, but from personal experience i can engage 5 targets at the sametime, battleships will focus on them to take them out fast, but anything below battlecruiser 1-2 launcher/s per target is more than enough to kill them fast without wasting extra missiles on an already dead target.

Personal choices.

If you are shooting small targets (eg small anoms) with degrouped guns then no point in using a guidance computer. Use two sebos instead.
All the application you need is in using two rigors and faction ammos or precision for long-range.
And yeah, no point in using TP/web in those. No point in using a missile drone either, unless you warp straigth in the rats.