Efficiency scripts for target painters

modules
game-mechanics

(noone kun) #1

Ok, gentlemans, we have a problem. There is a way to lower target’s speed by 60%-90% with 1 module and apply more damage to it. But there is no way to boost target’s signature proportionally. Result of this is that you cant apply much missle damage to small target that does nothing but hangs in front of you. Target painter looks like a decision, but its efficiency is not even close to stasis webifier. In the same time, you dont need that much optimal range when you brawl.

Suggestion is to change base stats of target painters and add two scripts for them - painting range and painting efficiency. More efficiency you will get - less optimal and faloff range will be.

Current stats for target painter II, all 5 skills, no ship bonus.
optimal 54km, falloff 135km, signatureradius +37.5%
Those can stay the same for painter with painting range script.

To get something equal to teck II web, we need 150% signature boost at ~9km (16.875km falloff) while using .efficiency script. (x4 signature boost, /6 optimal and /8 falloff range)

So, base stats would be 75% signature boost at 18km.with 33.75km falloff
(x2 signature boost, /3 optimal and /4 falloff range). In this case we will get same 37.5% at 51.75km, so flying without pange scripts will not hurt most of the fits, imo.

Also, to get something equal to stasis grappler II we may need script that boosts target’s sig like x600% at 2.25 optimal and 4.24km falloff


(Hipqo) #2

Hmm in seeing 90% vigilant webs with insane target painters, being one of the spawn of this idea. Which is crazy, the only proper counter to that would be ECM basically and ECM should NEVER be the only proper counter, because its RNG based and so janky.

I totally get that you want more out of your target painter, when you use it with missiles. Thats exactly why we have Rigor Catalyst rigs, though. Combine those rigs with a 75% target painter (which is more then a fully skilled golem bunos btw, insane) and you will break the mechanic all together, forcing people to use target painters, when ever there are small targets, otherwise you would be at a HUGE disavantage. No module should be like that.

Can you imagine a dual Rigor rigged golem, with dual target painter, under this new system and using torpedos? That thing would be no fun to fight against. You will be able to apply almost 100% torpedo damage to destroyers, bad idea.


(noone kun) #3

sure, i can imagine this allmost 2b ship… dying to 20 teck I destroyers or being dropped by 2b rapid torp phoenix. with those scripts, in first situation it will have a chance, at least.
first, explosion radius is missle equivalent of optimal range on turrets, so targets still have explosion velocity parameter (tracking), which they can use to avoid damage.
second, fitting painters and rigors requires valuable med / rig slots, so high efficiency will have a price - bad tank / tacle / mobility.


(Daichi Yamato) #4

Painter doesn’t need the strength of a web at any range. Use the right tool for the job.

I.e. If you’re brawling, use a web!


(noone kun) #5

You are saying i should get orbited to death by small ships just because i used missiles instead of turrets or drones?
Numbers of sig boost can be discussed, main thing is to give missile ships ability to do what turret ships can. Not to mention painters can help other weapon systems as well.


(Daichi Yamato) #6

When you are being orbited missiles tend to have better application than turrets. Orbiting ships don’t go full speed…

I think you need to take a closer look at the missile application formula. And maybe some graphs in eft/pyfa. You don’t need a short range painter, just a web or two.


(noone kun) #7

You can be shure, i know how missiles work. My point is: missile damage depends on two parameters when compared to turret damage. Small enemies probably will be orbiting, but standing still and laughing on my webs will work as well.


(Daichi Yamato) #8

So only in hypothetical situations are turrets better.

*facepalm

Seriously, input the numbers of a 30sig frig with 0 velocity into the missile formula…


(noone kun) #9



(Daichi Yamato) #10

Yeah, that’s 100dps to a frig and it’s not even going 0m/s.

Everyone knows turrets do full dps to unmoving targets. Thats not what I’m saying. And if that’s what you’re whining about you’re a moron. I’m telling you that if a frigate goes to 0m/s, it’s gonna die, even against torps.


(Dread Saboteur) #11

Nope. I don’t support this idea as it’ll help turrets more than missiles in the end


(noone kun) #12

i don’t see a reason why weapons should not get some little help since they are not getting any bonuses from implant sets (like crystal), command bursts etc.


(Daichi Yamato) #13

They can have help…a web!!! Look at what webs and stasis grapplers do to a torps damage against smaller targets. You also have drones and neuts that can turn your battleship into a frigate killer.

Rather than posting about something you clearly know nothing about, go on the sisi server and play test various fits.

A phoon with rapid-heavies, neuts, and a web will make short work of any frig it gets a hold of.


(noone kun) #14

Im sorry but you post looks like “man, why do you want to fix your broken lags? you have such a good wheelchair and crutches. also, those kids next door are always happy to help you”.


(Daichi Yamato) #15

Right, can’t defend your idea, so hide behind peoples with disabilities?

Really low man.


(noone kun) #16

ugh… What i am trying to say is that webs, neuts and drones are equal to crutches in this case. They do not solve thie problem called “target’s signature can not be boosted much”


(Daichi Yamato) #17

They are not crutches they are tools.

And there isn’t many ways to blow up a ships sig because there doesn’t need to be. You can increase missile application by using a web (often more so than you can with a painter), or by using guidance computers/enhancers and rigs.

You don’t seem to realise that reducing a targets speed has exactly the same effect as increasing it’s sig. Or that using a guidance computer with an application script has the exact same boost to damage as using a target painter in most if not all situations.

Having a ‘better but short range’ target painter is no different to using a web!


(Dread Saboteur) #18

CCP intended for smaller ships to have a chance that’s why there’s no ‘‘I win’’ module against smaller ships.


(noone kun) #19

i doubt that, because

and missiled do not.


(Daichi Yamato) #20

Go out and do some pvp. Tell me how often your target isn’t moving…