I believe…
I have to agree, im a lowsec dweller and everything is so much more expensive now. People are just not taking fights or yoloing ships about as much as before because its harder to replace them. also the quality of gangs you see has droped. i think ccp just want people to supplement there income with plex and thats not going to happen.
People are jsut not flying spaceships as much because of scarcity and thats very bad for the game.
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I make no such claim.
But you have to admit that the recent scarcity of explosions will be somewhat addressed by AT17.
Karak has no idea what hes talking about lol
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I understand perfectly well that the people who are used to effortless farming and can’t think even two steps ahead are crying endlessly about this. Long term sustainability is more important that your feelings.
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Let’s bust a quick myth, shall we?
You mention the MER. Ok.
Look closer.
What the MER highlighted is that there was a production spike between april and may, after which the end product production totally collapsed.
Hm… let’s see what else happened around april or just shortly before it.
Fascinating!
So, here’s what happened:
• New items are introduced that will become MANDATORY and REQUIRED for production of SEVERAL hulls.
• Blueprints are seeded.
• Industrialists realize that these items are a production nightmare, requiring a complexity and material amount comparable only to T2 and T3 production, thus giving a ludicrously disproportionate advantage to T2/T3 producers while also affecting T2/T3 supply (what’s used to make the new items doesn’t end up being used for T2, simple as that).
• Some industrialists nonetheless give their all and start pouring their effort and money into the new items.
• Some other industrialists also pour more minerals into producing more of the ships they see will be affected by the changes (more end products).
• MER shows the upswing of production, as these new items are currently END PRODUCTS, as they currently serve no purpose other than existing.
• People slow down production towards the end of april, believing that their new stocks are actually plentiful enough to sustain production for the immediate future while they finally perform the needed efficiency research and recoup their costs through other means.
• End of april and beginning of may marks the introduction of the new items into blueprints.
• End product production plummets as the new item stocks are insufficient to cover the entire supply and thus requiring additional costs that industrialists wouldn’t and/or couldn’t cover earlier, in addition to the metric being altered by the fact that the new items are no longer end product themselves.
• The quantity of new items required by industry is such that a constant stream of supply is nearly impossible to maintain without incurring stupid high costs. People start logging off and occasionally unsubbing alts that will just have to wait for their planets to produce the sufficient materials, while being only used to fly a venture for the occasional moon mining.
Add to it the war in Delve being to a standstill and you get the rest of the picture.
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Unless the supply is bottlenecked, the ‘stupid high costs’ for production should be paid for when the prices of the end products rise. This means that for certain end products (the ones which should be much more expensive after the changes due to new components) they won’t be profitable to make as long as the stocks keep the price down.
Destruction of ships is inevitable, so it is just a matter of time before those stocks are emptied and those ‘stupid high costs’ will be reflected in the ship prices making production profitable again.
Conclusion: there is no problem, just wait.
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The pie is large and perhaps also the slice in which we bite.
Perhaps I shall take a Less equals more. approach.
Why is destruction remaining the same ‘funnily enough’?
Isn’t that what we expected? And what we wanted?
And if this is all about delve, why is everyone outside of delve complaining?
So why did people rat in null? Why was blackout so bad for nullsec players and why are people complaining about the DBS/ESS?
Two posts after yours:
You say it’s a myth and then completely agree with me.
Are you confused as to which point I’m arguing?
You mentioned that one of their targets was lower production.
• They didn’t create ‘robust and interesting manufacturing progression’, because you go from only having to use straight minerals to a level of complexity that exists only to artificially slow the production speed and inflate production cost. This is especially true for battleships, as they are a mainstay series of hulls that would help bridge the divide between small and large groups by providing viable income strategies, or by being a viable platform for certain tactics and doctrines.
• There was no compartmentalization at all, because the baseline required between battleships, capitals and supers is still the same, only things different are the quantities and the specific final item blueprint required for the hulls themselves.
• They didn’t revitalize R4 moons, because those who were mining them before are hardly mining more of them, and those that didn’t mine them before certainly aren’t going expressly out of their way to drop in space a huge bulls-eye called refinery to mine one of their own.
• There was no change in the value proposition in activites other than choosing where and how quickly to be blown up when mining (if you can even mine in some areas) and how little you can gain by ratting in null sec, if you even gain anything because of the ESS robberies.
• I can’t vouch for wormholers, but from what i’ve seen and heard so far things did not improve as much as CCP expected.
• Capital proliferation was indeed impacted, by essentially cutting off small groups from capital ownership, while making battleships the most expensive asset one can field just shy of a marauder (which now has been nerfed too) or a black ops.
• The pricing of things did change, but i doubt that some frigates slowly inching towards the 1mil ISK in rookie areas is what they wanted.
• And so far nothing is seen or heard about how this resource distribution is going to work in the future, since CCP has decided to go radio-silent on the matter.
So yes, i do read dev blogs.
And i’m not directly agreeing with you, but some extra information for context was required.
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You’re looking at industry changes specifically.
Scarcity in general is an answer to titan proliferation and rorqual mining amongst other things.
You mean like how they changed small ship blueprints to require 3 hi-sec minerals and one low sec mineral, medium ships to require 7 minerals and large ships to require 7 minerals and components.
Progression like that?
You mean like how the new components require PI mats, hisec mining and lowsec reactions?
Compartmentalised like that?
You mean like tripling their worth and watching people put up more Athanors for them? Cause I’m looking at it.
Revitalise like that?
You’re ‘extra information’ is cynic anecdotes and wilfull ignorance (seriously read it back.). It’s only requirement is to put a negative spin on anything you don’t agree with.
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Value of ships doubled and tripled in some cases, so destruction remaining the same means that the number of ships destroyed has halved or decreased to 1/3.
And this is still old stockpiles being sold. Not built under new industry. Prices might double again. And destruction chart will go off the charts to CCPs delight, with almost noone actually dying.
Well, could you point out the flaws in that way of thinking?
MER measures destruction, production, ore mined in ISK, isn’t it?
Nestor kill from 2018 345 mil for the hull
Nestor kill from today 1057mil for the hull
If the graph shows you had the same value destroyed on any given month, but the price is 3 times what it was before, what do you think it means?
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Your mistake is assuming the average ship has increased in price two or three times over. Not one or two.
Well if cheap T1 ships got slightly cheaper, expensive faction ships doubled, and extremly expensive caps and supers quadrupled, isnt it safe to say that on average ship prices went up?
You think T1 price drop overweights everything elses raise?
What about halved population. Did the rest double welping efforts?
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It really depends what dies and how frequently. Check zkillboard.com and see if they record the frequency of ship types.
But not even all faction ships jumped much, if at all. They are still available via LP stores that circumvents production. Did any navy faction ships even increase in price? I know plenty didn’t.
And with respect to the lower population. It could be the population that avoid pvp at almost all cost. The dramatic drop in activity does coincide with nullification nerfs and afk cloaking after all.
It is an eco system every change affects a lot of things .We can all agree on the basics.Scarcity was a smart move from ccp it had some small downfalls but overall it had positive income on the eco system .Losses now matter .Industry became more focused ,i mean every clown could build his faction and t1 ships.Capital spawn on the game is over at last.Losses matter . Player base has come down ,u will ask me why is that a positive or think i am crazy ,but what ccp accomplished is truly remarkable . Less people means less isk and assets in the server also less tidi .For every player that is leaving the game eco system is getting healthier ,and overall the game experience is getting better .Most drops is from alts btw everybody has 1 plexed account .So when pcu reach 10k the game will be healthy and scarcity will be over gj ccp .The 10k player base support you
I’ve changed my tune on scarcity, somewhat. While I don’t think it’s killing the game, it is certainly making mining and industry less profitable than it used to be.
I’ve been watching the prices on basic minerals plummet, and they’re harder and harder to find between simply being scarce and the rats swarming belts. I would’ve thought high demand would keep the prices high, but that hasn’t been the case.
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I thought the same thing, I wonder what’s causing the price drop.
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