It’s unnecessary, because BLOPS have a bonus to cloaked velocity. I’d really much rather have it this way, than get cov ops cloak just for warping cloaked.
I think cov ops cloak on a BLOPS would be completely pointless. It would only be for warping while cloaked. There is almost zero benefit from that. BLOPS are great with how they are now, with regular cloak and bonus to cloaked velocity. People who don’t fly BLOPS never understand this great trait they have.
I had a Redeemer, and sold that for the Panther, some months ago, bc I needed a quick sniper replacement for some missions I run.
I trained Cyno for doing Vanguard sites with campgates a long time ago.
What you say it’s true.
Widow were the Black OPs of choice for Vanguard, Cruise fitted.
It’s been a long time I have not been using Cyno jumps but I never sold
my Vanguard ships. I have kept all of them.
Except for a Nightmare, which replacement was the Redeemer…
Sometime I take one out for a ride just to remember it exist.
Vanguard Fleet with voicecom is not an easy ride…
It requires you maximum flexibility…
Still, it’s a T2 BS, and should have more resists than T1.
What I have learned, is that blops fleets are much more important
for the EVE economy that some few raiders of the lost Art of
Vanguard Black Ops…
I definitely won’t sell this ship, also bc I made a custom SKIN for it…
(PS: Swap Vanguard with Incursions, sry, my mistake)
That alone would make covops cloaks on a blops overpowered.
Imagine a Panther that warps to your ship cloaked, decloaks and instantly applies 10k damage. Or imagine a fleet like that.
What many people do not know is that black ops battleships have the same unique and powerful bonus that bombers have: zero targeting delay after decloaking.
The only thing that keeps battleships in check is that they cannot get to a new grid while cloaked, which a covops cloak would grant them.
The fact that much less people is running Vanguard sites
now in respect to the past, doesn’t mean there is no
role for the Black Ops in their line-up.
Some sites are behind camp gates and you either have really good cloacky balls of steel and pass through with your “not cyno” ship,
or you employ a vast number of BlackOps and jump around
that obstacle.
There must be ay least one kind of ship with huge buffer tank in the fleet.
bc when all Sanshas start sniping on just you, you need at least three logis to just keep you alive, and forget less than 80% omni tank. Shield of course.
Now the last time I played Vanguard was at least three years ago.
I runned for a couple of week consistently.
Pve and PvP scenarios are not much of my concern fit this kind
of hulls. Maybe if I joined a coalition then BLOPS could concern me,
but they are not.
You are ruling out Black Ops from one of their best kind of use.
Yes, we need them.
Or try pass a camped gate in a Nightmare solo… then come back
tell me how it went…
(PS: again, swap Vanguard with Incursion, sry, my mistake)
Why not get a Marshal?
Those still have their buffer bonus.
To me, the Marshal is such a mixed bag of snakes.
It’s an incredible ship with a lot of build flexibility.
The only downside is it’s price.
The downside is the price, of course. I would love to be able to utilize one in PvE, it’s just far less effective.
Even without Bastion a Kronos deals 10x hybrid turrets worth of damage; a Marshal only 9x. There’s less of a gap with the Golem at 8x launchers vs. 9.6x launchers on the Marshal.
You’re comparing a stationary Marauder with a cloaky jumpy Black Ops battleship.
The fact that it gets even close to a Marauder without the downsides of a Marauder and with all the upsides of a Black Ops is surprising.
But yea, if you want a Marauder get a Marauder. They’re good at what they do.
I find the Bastion a bit too risky for my taste here in null so I went with different battleships myself.
I’m just looking at a specific (PvE) application comparison, yes.
I also was looking for a specific PvE application, but in a different setting I guess.
I’m getting some 10/10 escalations with my battleships, so I may need to look into a ship that can run them. A Marauder can, but Blops seems far more interesting to me as they can jump around to wherever the 10/10 spawns faster and safer.
100% this. Many problems are self-made because they constantly apply bandaid fixes instead of following a clear and consistent design path.
The 60-second/lack of mobility in Marauders annoys the f*** out of me even more than the nerfs. But there’s nothing (even the Marshal) that comes remotely close. Which sucks, because I feel like I’ve been pigeonholed into using a very specific class of ship. And then when it gets hit with the nerf bat over and over…
It’s the dps and tank you have during those 60 seconds that makes Marauders so valuable.
But if that’s not needed for your use-case you could look at alternatives.
I’ve heard of polarized faction battleships getting close in dps while keeping mobility. This does sacrifice a lot of tank though.
Polarized fits in high-sec are gank magnets, and even a handful of catalysts can take them out. I should probably move out of high-sec…
Then I would pay attention to surroundings while flying one.
And use a travel fit when you move one around, like I do with my battleships. Inertial stabs, MWD cloak, extra tank, warp core stab and carry the expensive stuff or polarized weapons ahead in a blockade runner that scouts the route.
Valid points - it’s just more practical to fit for that eventuality and assume it’s going to happen. As I said, it would be great if we had more actual choices - but FC has really limited our options. High-sec isn’t Pochven, so it’s not like ISK is raining from the sky…
We play with the (best) toys FC has given us to play with in their sandbox…
You also can get creative with the options you have.
I haven’t flown Marauders much but you say the Kronos still has more dps than a Marshal without bastion: how viable are Marauders without bastion?
If you don’t want to be stuck for 60 seconds and you don’t need the extea dps or tank of bastion, would it be viable to use one without having bastion active at all times?
Or try one of the faction battleships. I’ve been experimenting with an Apoc navy since a week and it works great for my use case:
Your problem is that you somehow believe you need this overwhelming DPS of Marauders to get anything done. You can perfectly make money in Faction Battleships or T3Cs or Commandships with very moderate bling and a good clone. The lesser income is just the price for the safety of being mobile all the time… where is the problem? You don’t need to make 200M/h in a Marauder, why can’t you just live with 100M/h if you value your safety and mobility that high?
And if you really think you want mobility AND a higher income, yes, then leave highsec and go where there is more ISK/h to make, but again you have to pay a price: constant attention, because there it doesn’t need a ganksquad to bring you down, 1-2 well equipped PvP ships would be enough, so make sure they can’t sneak up on you.
The challenge is that for the activities I do, it really boils down to which Marauder is best-suited to L4s. And hands down the Kronos is the end-game. 400k+ EHP and 3000+ DPS out to 110km (although I’m probably only seeing that at 60-80km).