Why are hacs so crap?

(Opuctus Exhilarate) #1

I’m a low sec small gang pvpier and do a lot of kity shenanigans. I love the idea of hacs but there just way to slow even with mid grade snakes. Most of them you have to dedicate at least 2 lows to speed. Whats worse is the faction cruisers all do their role for so much cheaper. To top that off there just better. I understand the economics of it, its easier to run a site then assemble a t2 ship but if that is the case they need a buff.

I feel like they all need 20 to 30 m/s base speed and maybe a passive tracking bonus to help with the long range guns as they’re all way to strong atm(do similar dps and way longer ranges as the short range guns.) But i dunno maybe a faster warp speed would help. I dunno but there all crap unless you spend a bill on them to be as good as a 300 mil faction cruiser.

Fly safe,
Opuctus Exhilarate

(Scipio Artelius) #2

Stop being a coward. They are assault cruisers, not run away machines.

Regards, lowsec brawling pvper :grin:

Seriously though, yeah aside from the Vagabond, which is a good kiting ship, most of the others are better in a brawling role.

Since the introduction of the assault damage control, it’s also good to see HAC fleets returning to larger fleet PvP too. Especially the Ishtar. It’s like 2013 again. This also is more a kiting use of a HAC.

(Opuctus Exhilarate) #3

in small gang settings the asdc doesn’t help on assfrigs op but the longer engagements for cruisers doesn’t make a mark. A good fc will primary see the guy hit his asdc and switch and come back 15 sec later to kill him. Also if you dont have speed while brawling the enemy will just kite you even with scram web. Because you both have it. While an orthrus should always have a defensive scram to keep you from landing yours. Kiting is harder to do well but better in the end if you can dictate range you can always get out.

Gila is better than isthar as well lower sp in with similar dps with better application, bigger bay and more tank.
Assault frigs are borderline op with the asdc so the asdc will probably need a nerf anyway.

Now if your fc is not making hard switches and able to rely on everybody in their fleet being able to manually pilot get gud. But brawling is were everyone started. Eventually you’ll graduate to kiting.

Fly safe,
Opuctus Exilarate

(Eternal Montage) #4

I think cuz they’re heavy, and meant for assaulting… they’re never going to be good for kiting. Most of em anyways.

But I do agree, it makes no sense to train for and bling out a HAC when you can get a superior ship for less isk in a faction/pirate cruiser. And what good is a mwd sig radius bonus if you’re just going to end up brawling.

Woah Woah woah… this is arguable. I prefer an Ishtar personally. It’s been hit by the nerf bat many times though, I will admit.

(Opuctus Exhilarate) #5

Dont get me wrong i fly the ishtar over the gila and own 2 kite ishtars but it took 2 lows and a rig to get it to be just meh speed. the prob is a gila is 250 mil fully fit and an isthar is like 350 400. In really large fleets most of your guys can already fly a gila. And lets forget there flyable on alpha clones to a decent degree. There range bonus and 50 dps doesn’t make up for the skill and cost.

Fly safe,
Opuctus Exilarate.
P.S. I will always fly hacs

(Eternal Montage) #6

I don’t disagree. It makes zero sense that pirate ships are stronger than t2 ships imo.

However the Ishtar is best as a solo brawler these days. It can fit a ridiculous active tank.

(Jennifer Austin) #7

I got an idea why don’t you be a real man and come do some mining and quit ganking people and actually make an honest living

(Opuctus Exhilarate) #8

Dual rep astarte has like 2k dps tank but thats neither here nor there the ishtar is just okay to honest. The vaga has a nice bil isk fit with a pith x xl shield booster. But in low sec your not gonna get 1v1ed in these any way and you can just be kited anyway.

But we just got super side tracked from the original post which was that hacs suck and need a buff in some way. Speed would help both kiting and brawling fits. I mean why does the zelot have 210 speed its just useless there.

Fly Safe,
Opcutus Exilarate

(Eternal Montage) #9

The Zealot has fallen so so far from grace.

(Cartheron Crust) #10

It only ever had that brief spotlight iirc when AHAC fleets came about (to counteract draekfleetmenace) right? Aside from that was it ever that great? I mean, three mids, no utility high, no drone bay, not that fast, cap intensive, fixed damage type. It’s just magpie bait, shiny junk. =/

(Wanda Fayne) #11

lol kiting vs a Cerb…
Umm, I can still hit you from here (or there) :grin:

(Opuctus Exhilarate) #12

With like 350 dps and a small tank.
Fly safe,
Opuctus Exilarate

(Makshima Shogo) #13

Yea I mean cerb is the only really good hac (ishtar is decent), only because of its super long range + tank/decent speed combo, the tengu cannot compete with it because its flown very differently, if you compare the legion to the zealot/sac or the Proteus to the deimos or the loki to the muninn the t3 will always be better in those spot’s.

Maybe if they all became like the cerb and had really long range (120-150km’s) compared to t3 they might make a comeback? The ADC is only really good for small ships like the af’s HAC’s need something sustaining in a fight, not burst.

P.S. Sig tanking is nothing like it used to be back in the day, could be why HAC’s have seen a massive fall off.

(Scipio Artelius) #14

They are going to be rebalanced shortly.

It was originally expected at the same time as the assault frigates, but CCP Rise commented that there was insufficient time.

So we are all expecting the rebalance soon (not a normal CCP soon, but a real concept of soon).

(elitatwo) #15

The Eagle gets 145/165km and the Zealot (needs some tank) around 100-120km.

So range isn’t a problem but speed is. An Omen may only get 68km range but at 2200m/s she will out-kite a lot HACs.

(Opuctus Exhilarate) #16

Party the reason for this post. I haven’t seen anything in like 2 months about it. And to see what other people thought. T3s are inherently slow across the board to make up for their dps and tank. While making hacs fast heavy tackle with more ranged applicable damage would make them really nice. Think like a 40 to 50 km optimal with a tracking speed bonus would be nice. while giving them some power grid to accommodate long range weapons.

Fly safe,
Opuctus Exhilarate

(Scipio Artelius) #17

That would make them oppressive in large fleet formations, so I don’t think they need to be a small gang kiting ship. But that’s just my view.

(Caleb Seremshur) #18

[Zealot, Zealot fit]

Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Energized Thermal Membrane II
Extruded Compact Heat Sink
Extruded Compact Heat Sink
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II

Warp Disruptor II
Large Cap Battery II
50MN Microwarpdrive II

Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma M

Medium Anti-EM Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II

look at the range on the short range ammo

(Nico Boru) #19

Because that plays back onto the MMO part of Eve. Pirates dont follow rules so their ships will be built different from empire approved ones. Just like RL military vehicals have limits imposed on them by the governing groups, treaties, and such. Thats why we didnt build ships that had as many guns as we could fit and fire without tearing the hull asunder in WWII. Also, HACs are damage sinks and are designed to be able to survive being primaried longer than others. Nerfs have probly changed this though.

Just got to use a fact I learned from world or warships.

Edit: Also, Heavy Assult in HAC brings to mind a well fit brutix/Applicaple to Other Race Ship in a thorax/AORS hull. No speed for kiting there.

(Opuctus Exhilarate) #20

the prob with hacs in a big fleet is they’ll just get alphaed they only have like 50k ehp max which is like 12 slepnirs (6k*12=72k alpha) so there just not viable as a fleet ship on that alone the eagle and the sac can be used in fleets but the eagle has no like 200 dps is too slow to dictate range (with a rig and a overdrive it only gets to 2200)has less tank then the tengu. While the sac has no range at all (and is super slow with a plate). So there both useless in a fleet.

Everybody fears them in large fleets when slepniers and lokis counter all of them with a medium gang. There just not fleet ships there solo and small gang ships. Active tanking is only ever going to be tops 5 enemies on a cruiser. So don’t kid yourself that these crazy tanks are gonna save them.

Fly safe,
Opcutus Exhilarate.