i have a 1kdps Cerb that would like a word with you OP. what faction cruiser do you have that gets that beyond 60km?
but in all seriousness HACs are not really that great in solo or small gangs. however some like the eagle are great in larger fleets.
to those saying the ADC are crap on hacs this is not true if you know what you are doing they are life savers. Don’t fly hacs much myself but i do fly logi and when pilots use that ADC right they let that ship live long enough for reps to land when they otherwise wouldn’t.
HACs (and AFs while we’re at it) need fitting. and the vagabond needs more range because who tf uses arti on a vagabond? it doesn’t have the fitting for it.
also, their* not there. “there” is a reference to a location while “their” means “they possess something” and the short for “they are” is “they’re”.
and is punctuation really so hard for you?
but people who have seen any of my arty fits know full well they are fun over practicality.
people always look foolish when they try to bring this up in an online forum but they look more foolish when they themselves don’t follow the rules
while and can indeed be used at the start of a sentence you still need to capitalize it. unless necessary do to repeated use in a long writing form (such as a book extended article or essay) it is never okay to use abbreviations or contractions. if you do use abbreviations like tf or arti they need to be properly punctuated. slang of any form is also a no-no in writing.
Yes but then logically the T2 ships should be built efficiently and cheaply for mass and pirate hulls would be a lot more expensive but atm T2 is a lot more expensive…
I don’t see any reason why someone would use a zealot or vaga, cynabal/loki is better than a vaga at kiting/fleet and a legion does everything a zealot does but much better.
now to be fair you did use 2 of the three worst hacs for that example
i would take a cerb over an Orthrus in many fleets for example. pirate ships are not better than t2 but they are a lot more general in their usage meaning they can fill more roles.
its not some weird laws or restrictions that are T2 follow and faction ignore its just T2 is by design far more specialized than T1 ships
But we just got super side tracked from the original post which was that hacs suck and need a buff in some way. Speed would help both kiting and brawling fits.
Correct. I think the problem with HACs is they must compete with BCs and the advantages they offer over BCs doesn’t justify their substantial extra cost, especially as they can’t tank as well and so make worse brawlers than BCs (in general).
I’m not sure why they were named HEAVY Assault Cruisers when their tanks are relatively weak, unless CCP is referring to their MASS. i.e. Heavy ASSault cruisers!
BCs are better at brawling so why not make HACs better at kiting?
The best HACs do this already (Vaga, Cerb, Ish).
This would also justify their cost.
BCs are cheap so players are willing to commit to a brawl and risk losing them.
HACs are expensive so players would prefer to kite and run away if losing.
Go toe to toe with the tech 1 variant and come back and tell me how bad they are
An Omen currently costs 9.5mill in JITA
A Zealot currently costs 282 mill in JITA
That’s almost 30 times as much.
Go toe to toe with your Zealot against 30 Omens and tell me how you do.
HACs are for a niche. If you decide to do abyssal sites you will be glad they exist.
Which is another way of saying they’re underused. As the T2 version of Cruisers, which are some of the most commonly flown ships, HACs shouldn’t be niche. Specialised, yes.
That’s not how this works. Most t2 ships have 50% more base ehp than t1’s, when factored against identical slot layouts the t2 ship has a number of key advantages.
Omen navy issues are competitive as well without being ball-busting expensive at 90mil or so
It’s not the hacs problem many years ago when you saw a vagabond or deimos you would cower in fear now many years later more blobing and power creep for other ships left them behind
That’s not how this works. Most t2 ships have 50% more base ehp than t1’s, when factored against identical slot layouts the t2 ship has a number of key advantages.
They’re T2. They’re supposed to be better than T1. Nobody is suggesting otherwise. However, when it comes to HACs those advantages aren’t currently worth paying 30 times as much when PvP is about “flying what you can afford to lose”.
I agree the title of this thread is a bit extreme as HACs aren’t “crap” per se but they’re currently overpriced for the limited advantages they confer when compared to other ships. (Apparently this is because of changes to passive moon mining.)
HACs have always competed with BCs when it comes to “brawling” because BCs have equivalent EHP while agility/speed is less important once you’re scrammed in a close range fight, which is why the least popular HACs are the “brawlers”. (i.e. Sac, Diemost, Dual-Rep Ish, Beagle)
This is where you’re mistaken. T2 is not a “better” blanket.
If you want to do the whole “good, better, best” flowchart, it goes:
T1 < navy < pirate
T2 is specialization
T3 is generalization/flexibility
T2 is not meant to be a straight buff to t1 (although in most cases it is, just due to bonuses/resists/additional weapons & slots). Every t2 ship has a specialization it focuses on. Whether its being a good brawler or sniper.
Doesnt mean you couldnt make a sniper specialized ship into a brawler or brawler into a sniper, but it will really shine in its specialization.
Not when it comes to HACs, which, generally speaking ARE better than their T1 variants when used similarly.
Can you give me an example of a T1 cruiser that’s better than it’s T2 version at a particular role?
If you want to do the whole “good, better, best” flowchart, it goes:
T1 < navy < pirate
T2 is specialization
T3 is generalization/flexibility
This “on-paper” classification doesn’t tell the whole story.
Being more specialised doesn’t mean they aren’t also better because they don’t just have different ship bonuses they have more ship bonuses. Indeed, these are usually the same T1 bonuses plus extra T2 (HAC) bonuses. HACs are T1 Cruisers with better resists and bonuses and similar slot layouts and attributes.