Why increase taxes again?

Yesterday they increased taxes on industry again. And they changed the system cost formula to make system index cost more volatile. None of this is good for industry imo.

And one has to wonder why they do it? Is it to combat inflation from bounties? Well here is a suggestion? Why dont you nerf bounties instead. Is it because CSM is dominated by groups who are printing money from bounties?

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Its a shame they dont explain why they introduce changes such as this and we have to speculate instead. But the only reason there could be seems to be to try and combat inflation. Their favorite ISK sinks are taxes, its clear from the economic report. Tax is by far the biggest isk sink. So here is how they operate, ISK entering the economy from NPC bounties is going up, and then they respond by raising tax on trade an industry. First of all it doesent really work to combat inflation because if industry becomes more expensive then that cost will just be added to the final cost. And you may say “its only 0.75% increase” but it also compounds, because some/most? products are part of a chain and its 0.75% added in cost every step.

But also its not sustainable because when costs on products goes up, you have to rat more, which means ISK from NPC bounties entering the game goes up. Do you see what i mean? And so CCP have chosen the easy path to deal with this. This short sighted path. And its not even working, as evidences since they raised tax yet again.

Probably because they think too much stuff is produced in too few systems.

The SCC Surchage Tax doesn’t matter much because everyone has to pay it everywhere, so nobody gains an advantage. It will be priced in and in the end the final customer will pay it (aka ISK sink).

Making System Cost Index more volatile does not sound so bad, because if it applies for rising and falling, you don’t have to wait so long for your system to recover. Just coordinate the job installation among your producers, so all install at once when the index is low. Then when the jobs run out, all wait a few days for the index to go down again before installing the next jobs. Or do a clever cycle between manufacturing, research and invention jobs.

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While I don’t have a conclusive answer, my personal speculation is that they saw the unusually high positive Active ISK Delta in the latest MER which comes from the Sinks and Faucets diagram and they decided they need to increase a sink.

I think it’s a dumb reaction due to other issues with the player run market but hey every armchair economist disagrees with every other armchair economist.

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What are you talking about? Where are the patch notes about it?

Let’s see…

  • The SCC surcharge for all industrial activities, such as manufacturing and invention, has been increased from 0.75% to 1.5%.
  • We have adjusted the System Cost Index formula to make it more volatile.

That’s all? Is this what made you ■■■■■ so much?
I hope the system index goes up to 30% this time, and I hope other industrialists haul their stuff only in cargo fitted Tayras

This is good for EVE, thank you CSM and thank you CCP

@Wesfahrn EVE is like real life: Death and Taxes :slightly_smiling_face:

See the report, see where isk is coming from which region.

But Pochven in this above slide is misleading, it have flashpoints that pay differently, there is no NPC bounties, only payout after site finished. There is nothing strange for a fleet member to get like a billion in one day running those flashpoints in assault cruisers.

Also this:


Its like that for many years. People make a lot of isk and it stays in the economy. inflation, and to battle inflation one thing is to raise taxes.

That will be when all the Industrialists stop subbing their 4-5 accounts (necessary to support high level mining and indy activities), stop playing (Making Stuff) and leave to find another sandbox game. Just be careful what you wish for, it actually might come true.

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If they are building at trade hubs it’s their problem, I couldn’t care less if people with a ton of industry alts are leaving

If a player cry about this, they it’s best if he quits

Some rig mats have a very low adjusted value, so no not everyone has to pay it.
Examples :

  • Thruster Console has 58.12 “adjusted” but 36635.07 “average” and 40000 Jita SO. It means the tax for production of items requiring only this is 0.15% of what it should be.
  • Contaminated Lorentz Fluid is taxed at 0.2% of its price.

So the people who build rigs, they mostly don’t even care about SCC surcharge, cost index and co. They can as well produce in Jita because it makes no difference.

Yeah, another threshold effect amplified.
Unless more volatily means the cost index is computed just after a job is started.

Well yeah, its a workaround. I personally dislike the whole Concept of System Cost Idex, because it punishes small groups for cooperation and doing business in the small area (often only one system) they can control. If even a single producer alt (3 chars, 30 jobs) can raise the System Cost Index to a level where it becomes hardly lucrative any more to keep doing it there, something is wrong. I don’t even get what lore explanation should be behind it. Maybe, okay in HighSec/Lowsec the Empires can use some arbitrary tax. But in 0.0 or WH? Why should I pay more to the SCC or whoever when producing there? Its a bit immersion-breaking for me.

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Just few days ago there was player claiming he can make profit making destroyers as alpha clone. So I saw this coming miles away :wink:

When CCP makes it cost more to make something, I charge more for it. And when CCP does something that brings the cost down again, I charge less. Just like I’ve been doing for the last fifteen years in here.

I see nothing worth having an episode about with this change.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

Probably the most absurd tax in the whole of Eve is the tax on PLEX sales. No sooner has one bought £5 worth of PLEX off CCP, than one ends up paying a chunk of it back to CCP in sales tax on converting it to ISK.

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Huge industrialists do not pay these taxes except maybe when they sell the final product. They trade massive amounts off the market using contracts. So taxes are a preferred isk sink because they do not affect the powerful/rich players and they disproportionately penalize the independent people that are not MMOGing “properly”.

Yes they do.

You have mats that can be sold for a base price.
You produce items from them. You pay taxes for starting the job, with % being (location_tax + costindex×location_reduction + surcharge) . IIRC the minimum location_tax is 2.5 , the minimum effective costindex is 3% (actually it depends on your number of alts) , surcharge is 1.5 so you already pay 7% of the mats value as taxes.

You then sell that. you have to remove broker fees and station taxes from the price sold. Say it’s 4.5%, assuming no relist. So if you sell at price S, you actually get S×0.955 .
so if you remove the mats and industry price, that is M×1.04, you have S = 1.089 × M.
If you can’t sell the item more than 9% increase over the mats price, then you are losing money (to taxes).

That’s in theory, in reality CCP has broken some items and they have zero tax (some rigs) so people who build them can just ignore those changes.

How does that evade the JobInstallation Fees (System Cost and SCC Surcharge) when using these resources to produce anything new?

I suppose that I was mistaken, I assumed that since this topic was titled “taxes” that it was talking about taxes, not fees. My bad.

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A part of the installation fees are literally taxes (2.5% for stations).
Also they are effectively taxes in the same way market taxes are.

Also you should read the OP to have an idea of the topic. Precisely,

would have given you a hint that the topic is about industry.