hey guys…
eve is not pay to win
In a 1v1 PVP scenario. Me and all my skills sitting in a Stratios with fitting suited for Alpha clone as Omega vs me as an Alpha in the exact same Stratios fit. Who do you think will win? I wouldn’t mind if Alphas have to skill twice as long and only have one day of skill queue they can fill up (current system). Maybe they even have to pay extra fees or taxes when using services, do missions or some other stuff. But skills and equipment should not be limited. That would reduce the P2W factor drasticly while making Omega a said “skip-the-grind” option. This would make Omega much more attractive in my opinion while tying players better to the game - also in a fair way.
Which is essentially about everything. The issue these days is that people change definitions. When the concept of P2W came about it was about being able to pay for an advantage that was exclusive to the paid with cash items.
Again, based on your definition the vast majority of games these days are P2W, as they offer some way to bypass the grind. If that is the case then it is kind of like the immortal words of Syndrome:
Saying that ‘Omega’ is makes EVE pay-to-win is silly.
EVE is a subscription based game with free unlimited trial.
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In my case? Probably the alpha. But i really really suck at PVP.
Also what @Gerard_Amatin said
Omega subscription is not ‘pay to win’ - it’s ‘pay to play’. The Alpha clone is an unlimited free trial - if you want the full game, you pay to play it. You aren’t buying a gameplay advantage, you are buying the full game.
Allowing players to trade PLEX bought with real money for in-game goods has a vague resemblance to Pay to Win, except that everything they are buying is being sold by other players, not CCP.
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I detest games that use P2W mechanics and would never play one. The day CCP introduces P2W to EVE (or any company to any other game I play) is the day I stop playing that game.
But that’s when I follow my definition of P2W that I explained above. If I follow your definition of P2W every single game that I played with a free to play model is pay to win. This means the label P2W completely loses it’s meaning as it automatically follows out of F2P, so why bother discussing whether games are P2W or not in that case?
Let’s continue that thought: your definition of P2W is that players who pay have an advantage over players who don’t pay. This means that…
EVE became pay-to-win the day free alpha clones were introduced. /thread
Except I haven’t. I’m going to stay away from playing the “here’s the internet definition” of P2W, but if you do google it you can click on 5 links and get 5 different variations on the definition.
Generally due to the fact that P2W has an implied connotation of being a very bad game balance breaking very bad thing.
So fine, let’s get away from the semantics. What part of EVE’s implementation is horribly unbalancing?
I can use me as an example. This character is my “main” not a forum alt. Now ironically i have some other accounts that I actually play on more, but this is my first and holds that special place in my MMO heart.
I’ve accrued enough SP to fly most anything I want. I could probably get in a super or titan within a month if I wanted to. This was due to me playing and training for about a decade at this point. I’ve also accumulated enough isk to be mildly “space rich”.
Have I won?
Now instead if someone now comes along and has tons of money, buys injectors to get his character to the same SP and isk level that I am at, but in a matter of hours, has he won?
Or if he buys a character like mine off the bazaar, has he won?
Effectively the only real “pay” mechanics is being able to buy plex and plex related items. They can help people catch up, or skip the isk grind. But I have yet to see how those things make the game horribly unbalanced or “bad P2W”
I guess anything can be “P2W” if you just define it wrong. 
Exactly.
Pick your own definition of P2W and you can apply it on any game you want.
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Eve is “Pay to feed”, not “Pay to win”…
There is no right or wrong definition, just different definitions.
So let’s ask that question another way. Not
‘What is the right defintion of P2W?’, but
‘What is the useful definition of P2W?’
Following your definition of P2W, we can conclude that a P2W game is a free to play game. Simply saying that the game is F2P instead of P2W would suffice. Calling the game P2W is redundant.
Following my defintion of P2W, we can conclude that a P2W game is a bad game that should be avoided at all costs. This is a useful flag for other players.
It’s kinda in the name. Nobody is calling it Pay for slight advantage.
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His argument can be boiled down to:
Can you pay? - yes
Can you win? - yes
Are they independent of one another? - doesn’t matter
Then = P2W (this is wrong, btw)
Whereas, everyone else in the video game universe logics:
Can you pay? - yes
Does paying give you an objective advantage over non-paying players? - yes
Then = P2W
Ok maybe semantics was a bad choice of words. Le’t try this.
Fine, I will agree by your definition that EVE is P2W. So what?
As pointless as you coming back calling it P2W without any reason why that matters.
Except that actually falls EXACTLY into what I was talking about in what I’d call P2W, forcing you to have to buy something with $$$ that you can’t otherwise get in game.
Great so we’re done here. Good to know.
It is the same amount as it has been since PLEX was introduced.
Maybe not you specifically, but SOMEONE had to pay $. The only source of extractors, particular SKNS, hypercubes, PLEX in game is to buy them in store from CCP.
When they are in game, someone MUST have bought them from CCP and nowhere else. as its the only way they were introduced to the game.
These items you can only get when SOMEONE is paying $ to CCP.
Not the same. What I am speaking about would be things you can ONLY buy with $$$$. Yes there are items the initially can only be purchased via $$$$ but once they are in game items anyone has access to them without needing to spand $$$.
If there were in game items that could not be purchased outside of real currency and could not be put on the market, that would be IMO a P2W mechanic that would be bad.
I think CCP’s implementation is pretty well balanced. heck I love that people have money to spend on PLEX as it has allowed me to play EVE for years without having to spend my $$$
Not really, only owner sometimes. If someone buys PLEX and immediately exchanges them to extractors and extracts from his main some not usefull skills, to then injects SP to learn completely new ones he didnt had, its is sort of convenience that is not available to anyone else beside him in that particular case. People dont have to sell PLEX on in game market, it is not required in some cases.