Main AFK cloaky thread

No, it is because if somebody in Goon space dies chances are they were doing it wrong, like not being in the standing fleet, not on comms etc. Goons also react quickly and decisively to threats. They will form up a gang right away.

That is a 1.5 billion ISK cost then. If you deem that small fine. But it completely negates the argument that there is no cost to AFK camping.

Actually, my view works in your favor…you just are not letting yourself see it. If my alternative is making 800 million ISK with that alt then that is my opportunity cost…not 1.5 billion. That is almost a 50% reduction.

Either way…the idea of “AFK camping costs nothing” is just not true. That argument is false.

He’s inflicting losses, immune in every way to any sort of counter attack?

■■■■■■■■. You can’t be serious.

He’s either not inflicting losses, or he can be counter-attacked.

It’s impossible for both of those situations to exist at the same time. At least be honest through your tears, because that statement is straight up false.

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Yep. Because in Mike’s world any PvE content that he does not farm at maximum ISK/hour efficiency counts as a “loss”. If an AFK cloaked ship scares him too much to farm then that’s literally taking money out of his wallet.

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"The person who is playing properly and is actively present is hard to kill (what a shocker) , “no risk” "

I mean it’s not possible to grasp such a warped perspective, a person who is doing everything correctly can accurately evade risks, therefore we must arbitrarily inject/maintain risk, that is completely asymmetric (and consequently unbalanced). Reminds me of American libertarians who think work is voluntary, “what is starvation”, completely warped perspective by interest.

And the person who warps to a safe, cloaks up…he too is safe and is “playing properly” in doing so. Further, he gathers no ISK, resources or anything else of in game value.

Nobody is suggesting we inject arbitrary risk.

And yes, market transactions are voluntary.

The totalitarian mindset is strong in this thread.

@Merin_Ryskin Nice angle about income and losses!

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Nobody is dictating you any way to play. You can play any way you want and I can play any way I want. If I want to go out and blow up your ship, how is that dictating you how to play? For all I care you could just continue with whatever you’re doing. Nobody is dictating you to run away.

You do realize that this is a multiplayer game and you’re not alone in that sandbox? If you want to play the way you want with no outside influence, in your very own personal sandbox, then play one of the X games. No other people there that could violate your safe spaces.
But if you want to play in the sandbox with all the other kids, don’t cry if one of those comes along to destroy your tiny sandcastle. They have just the same right to do whatever they want in that sandbox as you do.

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Don’t fall for the fallacy,Linus.

Every time they cry about how others want to dictate them how to play, they deflect from the fact that it’s the other way round. You’re legitimizing the fallacy with this post.

Fact is that the afk cloaker plays the game as intended and the cowards hide in station.
Fact is that the cowards want afk cloaking to be gone, so they have perfect safety.
Fact is that being perfectly safe is not a valid option.
Fact is that playing PvE without PvP underneath is invalid, according 5o the foundation the game lies upon.
Therefore it’s a fact that the cowards want to dictate how others play the game.

it’s the same for highsec carebears. The argument “we want to play how we want” is completely invalid. it’s like demanding that every piece on a chessboard should be allowed to behave like a queen! The game’s rules are clear, what is allowed is clear, and asking for changes to legitimate play is equal to asking for game mechanic changes that force people to stop playing how they want, according to the foundation the game is based on.

“You want to force us to play how you want” is a fallacy. It’s them who want that, but their lack of genuine self reflection, lack of honesty and lack of interest in anything but their own wants makes it impossible to argue about it. Trying is useless, as it only serves them.

I just want people to be present when they play. I’ve never had a problem with the “cloaky” part. It’s the “AFK” part that bothers me.

I encourage people to play however they want. Hunt me down, bubble the gates to my systems, cyno in insurmountable opposition, or stay cloaked and watch me… it’s all good. I just want you to actually be present when you’re logged in and playing.

It all comes back to wanting there to actually be a player present on the other side in a multi player game… not a logged in session with no player. I still fail to see why that desire is a bad thing.

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Because you could easily know by finding it out yourself. You frame it into something that isn’t the problem. the problem is that, despite other people being able to do it, there are people who claim that they can’t. 98% of the people who want afk cloaking to be gone usually use irrational arguments and appear to be delusional about the actual problem. example: when someone claims that the afk cloaker prevents him from undocking, then that person has bigger problems.

People simply have no ground to stand on. the problem exists in their way of thinking and not in the game itself, and this is proven by those who do not suffer when an afk cloaker is around.

Or, broken down to the fundamental logic:

Each and every afk cloaker is only an unconfirmed threat, until he becomes a confirmed threat. to confirm the threat, you have to get him to do something. being scared about an unconfirmed threat means being scared of an illusion. refusing to attempt to confirm that he is an actual threat is a problem of the player, not the game.

And this stands undefeated and undisputed. 9/10 people who complain about the afk cloaker do so out of the perspective of a victim, which means they have zero base for logical arguments. hell, most aren’t even behaving rationally.

I’ve looked at this extensively and there is a wealth of information on the forums, thanks to people mindlessly posting what’s going on inside of them.

95% of the people who complain about afk cloakers share several of these behavioural traits:

  • victim complex.
  • inferiority complex.
  • lack of a concept of self responsibility.
  • the inability to differentiate between game and reality, because
  • they mistake their feelings as something outside their responsibility, which leads to
  • an inability to understand rational arguments.
  • passive aggressive behaviour.

Even your own last paragraph can easily be dismissed as misleading and tangent to the point. a proper response by someone who sums up the logic into the perspective of a mature, self responsible person, would be this short paragraph written from an in-Character perspective:

Why the ■■■■ should you know if he is atk without undocking and figuring it out yourself? Others do it as well! Why do you ask for special treatment? You people already hide behind remote intel, so how about you get wrecked instead of demanding even more protection?!

k. thx. die.

And that sums it up pretty well, I’d say.

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Correction:

this is a multi-account, very little person online game. You’re welcome!

Okay… you’re making up a lot of stuff that frankly isn’t related to what I said.

I’ve suggested an AFK timer (like many MMO’s have already) because I think it would be good to ensure that people who are logged in are actually present so that interaction is possible.

I’m coming to the sandbox to play with others in the sandbox. I realize they might destroy what I’m making. I realize they might ignore me and choose to do their own thing in their corner. But I do expect them to be a real person when they get in… not a mannequin or something.

The “why should I know he’s at his keyboard” is a very odd question. It’s kind of unique to this game. Nobody would even think to ask that in any other game… because there’s no purpose to logging in and not playing. Eve is so goofy that people view it as a necessary component of the game. I just view it as something that makes it harder to identify who is actually there to potentially interact with.

And please refrain from telling me to die in the future. That could be construed as a real life threat and be a EULA violation.

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Definitely seems that way at times. I can’t think of any other game where people would be so upset at being prevented from staying logged on without actually playing the game.

If you aren’t playing the game… why do you care? If you are playing the game… it doesn’t matter.

i’ve been approaching this all wrong.

It’s simple: If you want to know if he’s there, undock and check.

Just like the others do.

It doesn’t matter how many actual players there are, as long as it’s more than 1.

What does it even matter? You can’t have a remotely serious discussion with them anyway. I muted this thread a long time ago and only ever peek in here when it shows up in the top 3 recent and I happen to notice it, something I asked CCP to fix.

That the cowards are trying to force everyone else to play by their rules and their rules only isn’t something new. They see the sandbox as their own personal playground where nobody else is allowed and just can’t understand that they aren’t alone in there and everyone has the same freedoms.

I admire your dedication of still clinging to that idiotic strawman argument. Really shows what a stupid moron you are.

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We once talked about things in game, remember? This stuff gets you warnings and bans. Express it in a smarter way, not on their level.

I am beginning to believe that the biggest mistake i and many others make, is that we go down to their level, instead of forcing them to ours.

Ummm… how can I check to see if someone is present if they’re cloaked? Or if they’re docked in a citadel I don’t have access to? And even if I could tell where their ship was located… how can I tell if they’re actually at their keyboard or have been going on a bike ride for the last two hours?

That’s kind of my point… if someone is at their keyboard and sitting cloaked, I have a shot to bait them. I can take out one of my mining or ratting ships designed to try to lure others into attacking me and try to get a bite. But the problem is I have no way of telling if I’m bating an empty chair or not. If he disappeared due to inactivity… I can go somewhere else and try to interact with someone who is actually present at their keyboard.

Didn’t you tell me to die a little while ago? Seems odd for you to give advice on this subject.

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

  • Socrates

As for the strawman point… how do you figure my view that people should actually be playing the game in order to stay logged in to a multi-player game is a strawman? I’m not misrepresenting your position at all… I’m telling you MY position. Those not actively playing should be logged off.

It would be using a strawman when others try to make my position about wanting to rat in peace when that is nowhere in anything I’ve said. They’re misrepresenting what I’ve said in order to suit their argument. My argument has nothing to do with ratting, PVE or cloaks… but rather that a multiplayer game should actually require the player to be playing.

Nope. That was what i’d write in-character, as explicitely mentioned.

If you can’t seperate reality from the game, then you need help.

Anyhow, when you undock and nothing happens, then he isn’t atk.

Do it like the others do. Undock and find out.

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