Strategic Cruisers are fairly mobile and have a lot of firepower. 1 VS 1, they can defeat most T1 hulls.
Can a Prophecy equipped with Heavy Ion Blaster IIs and drone enhancing modules, a Butrix with Heavy Ion Baster IIs, and a Hurricane with 720 Artillery IIs, and an executioner with either t2 or meta modules beat 3 Tengus armed with Rapid Lights Missile Launchers? By beat I guess I mean win in ISK.
Assume possible warp in locations is a T1 Destroyer or a frigate used as bait that the Tengus will attack and a bookmark 20 km away from the destroyer. The destroyer is likely dead before the battlecruisers aarive, so its firepower should not be counted on.
The Tengus will kite out your BCs and wreck them. End of story. It is so hard to get on top of onw of these things without a tackler, you will end up trying to shoot Null M at 30km range while they go for the Cane.
Eh, kind of figured the BCs would just be outclassed. Was hoping Null M would give some big bang, but I didn’t think this would work without anything pretending the targets from showboating away. A t1 frigate like an executioner just isn’t going to be able to hold a Tengu. Would probably need multiple t1 frigates, or a single tactical destroyer.
I was told various weapons systems had different ranges they ranged to work in and as long as BCs can be in the range of their weapons, they would be able to beat a more expensive hull. However, a single warp in point isn’t enough to keep the fight in the desired engagement range.
If I wanted to kill three Tengus, the minimum I would bring is 5 ceptors, a Command Destroyer, and about 8 T1 cruisers, likely 5 Mallers with 3 Augorer logi or 5 Caracals with 3 Scythe logi. Shoot EM at them.
Alternatively, a brick-tanked Huginn/Rapier + Broadsword + Triple XLASB Vargur combo would work if you don’t have many pilots. The problem with Tengus is that they are quite likely to have that nasty permatank XLSB. Maybe a Neuting Rattlesnake could work… idk…
Did you ever hear about the neut-resilient subsystem all tech 3 cruisers have? That and a large battery gives you a decent cap regen.
I may not like those ships and don’t fly them on TQ but I know how to fit them and I usually have 1-3 fits for them somewhere.
Do PVP Tengus generally leave their “native” EM resist hole intact? I thought they generally slapped on an EM hardener and a multispec, which leaves a close to uniform resistance, with maybe a small EM hole. Huh, I thought the fact that a settup using rapid lights would be worse than heavies against BCs. Seems like in PVP these things don’t have a weakness unless you’re fighting another missile boat.
Would 3 ceptors, 2 Executioners, 1 command destroyer, 2 Mallers, 1 Ashimaru, 1 Oneiros, 1 Blaster Vexor, 1 Blaster Prophecy, 1 Blaster Butrix, and 3 artillery Hurricanes with bleeder tanks work? Yeah I have some pilots who do want to kill the targets by any means using the available skill pool, some pilots who wnat to use their favorite ship, and some pilots who want to brawl with ships that can’t outrun their targets I realize that with 720s on them, the canes need a shield tank which cannot be fixed by the lone logi. Caldari light missiles would have a range of 42 km, Fury would have 32 km, and faction missiles boosted by a computer (computers compete in the mid slot for a shield boosters) would reach to 52 km. This is about… 453 Weapons DPS per Tungu using Fury? Can this work, or does it still not work? If it does work, how do you think it should be done?
My hope is that once a the Tengus are tackled, if the blaster guys can warp to 0 on them and be in Void range, the Tengus can’t get away even if they kill the tackle since a BC that does have its MWD can outrun a Tengu with a MWD shut down.
There’s so many factors beyond X ships vs Y ships. Can either side use gates and aggression to split the opposition forces? Does either side engage at once? At what ranges/grids/circumstances is the fight taken?
In your initial set-up, the tengus can warp in cloaked, align out and then just blap whatever they like before warping off immediately at any sign of something else on d-scan.
Your bait needs to be able to hold the target for the required time, which seems very tough if you’re baiting with frigs/dessies against 3 rlml tengus.
Settup is Tengus blowing up a lone destroyer in an asteroid belt. They seem insensitive to local having people of a known PVP corp there. They do not seem to want to take the bait if said dessie is from a known PVP corp and there are many from the same corp, but they are willing to blow up a lone guy from a different corp even with 17 guys in local (albeit they probably just checked the local NPC station and were like “eh, they’re docked”).
They seem unwilling to take on 5 or more people on grid unless everything in local is on the grid. They will not engage 5 dessies if there is someone in local cloaked up or docked. Baiting with 5 destroyers and frigates in hopes the others can arrive before the last target is locked up and blown up is not an option. They also seem unwilling to take on 2 BCs if there is someone in local cloaked up.
I don’t believe they are using cloaks since two of them constantly appear and disappear on d-scan at different times and the third guy is often docked up when he’s not joining the others. We’ve killed some Tengus from their alliance using a mixture of bait and the gate guns (and in one hilarious case the guns did 75% of the damage), but these 3 somehow (and the whole corp) always know if it’s safe to blow up a target by a gate in 4 volleys or if its not safe.
So, it looks like your targets include at least one or two of these 3:
And going by recent RLML hunting tengu losses - there’s a cloak fitted. It’s a reasonable assumption to make that almost all T3Cs outside of large-scale fleet doctrines are likely to be cloaky. Especially since they don’t lose some occasionally to a gate camp or passing encounter. Just because you don’t see them decloak doesn’t mean they don’t have one fitted for use at the proper time.
A few blaster (B)Cs and an ashimmu with support are plenty to take down most Tengus, you just need the right bait.
You need a ship that’s an appealing target and deceptively tanky to bait out these kind of people, and a reliable method of holding them for reinforcements. That should be tackle on the bait and cloaky hard tackle (arazu or a proteus to scram at range). These are the only combat ships/characters that should be undocked and active in system. Ideally all out of corp.
There’s a few choice options. A T3D can be made particularly tough, especially a confessor that gets resist and sig radius bonuses in defense mode. The Heretic can also fit a huge buffer for a destroyer. Try baiting with barges or a porpoise too. The porpoise has the uniquely powerful tool of being able to fit skirmish links to help it hold tackle while the cloaky alt decloaks.
Wa… wa… wa… wait?!
Someone wants to provide me with content?
Since the question was raised and my zkill was linked, the Tengu you’re likely looking at is x-type pith em shield hardener fit and has perma tank and the last praxis that tried to neut me out ran out of capacitor itself before managing to dry me <.<
My Tengu is blingy, come blap it and there’s surely a bunch of nice modules that will drop to you for it
Eh, I just kind of assumed if someone is on D-scan for 3 minutes in a row and he didn’t kill someone in those 3 minutes, he obviously isn’t using one since… why would you need to spend that long decloaked if you have a cloak? Or why would you warp to a Venture without a cloak 4 times in 8 hours (and not getting the kill until number 4) if you could have just done it thatfirst time.
The venture wasn’t the intended bait since 1, it doesn’t survive that long and 2) it wasn’t in the intended system.
Not sure why you think @Moko_Musana is there. That said, a tengu kill is a Tengu kill so baiting out the wrong guy and getting him… not the end of the world if it doesn’te nd up backfiring and losing the whole fleet.
One thing I absolutely will not do is take gate gun fire even in an engagement I could win. This means gate camps are out of the question even if others in my corp do these things.
The way cloaking delay works means the optimal time to decloak is during warp if you know you can land in tackle range, if you’re even cloaked at all.
Moko is one of the people who fits the description of what you’re doing, and doing it very well.
Refusing to take gate guns ain’t it dude. You don’t catch l33t pvpers by having morals.
Edit: also if he’s not lying about the fit, Moko’s Tengu isn’t “most tengus”. If you’re not applying at least 4k dps and neuting there’s a very real chance it can fight it’s way clear. Tengus are insanely receptive to bling,
I’m not necessarily suggesting gate camps. Gates are an excellent way to lay other sorts of traps if you can bait people into taking them in the heat of the moment.
TF is a bleeder tank? And why only one logi? It would die instantly!
I’d say no, largely because the Tengus can just kite you. Can’t apply that dank blasta DPS if you can’t close range. Those frigs will also die instantly, making them pretty useless. The Ashimmu is a good idea, because webs and good armor. I think you need some more long-range tackle (read Rapier) and some neuting power. If they are buffer fit, you just need more DPS and tank.
Don’t split DPS. 1359 DPS on one tengu is much better than 453 DPS on each.
The bugger thing is that if the tackle is dead, the MWD is no longer shut down, and good luck getting BCs to warp in fast enough to hold 3x scrams when the ceptors die or are forced off.
@Katya_Itzimaru is absolutely right here. Tactics matter too.
XD. 2) Well that takes care of the EM damage argument I guess :P.
Summary: Do whatever you want. Instead of deliberating on the forums for days, go out and die, then post the kills here and we can talk about it. Then rinse and repeat until you get a nice green line on your killboard that might go at leat a little toward replacing your many losses. Experience is the only way to truly learn.
Again… 16 toons in total? To flip a Tengu from a 3 Tengu wing? And a rapid light one on top of that?
I’d go mine some rocks in an asteroid belt with
[Porpoise, Bait]
Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
J5 Enduring Warp Disruptor
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN Afterburner II
Skirmish Command Burst II, Interdiction Maneuvers Charge
Skirmish Command Burst II, Rapid Deployment Charge
Medium Energy Nosferatu II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Transverse Bulkhead I
Medium Transverse Bulkhead I
Medium Transverse Bulkhead I
Warrior II x5
Mining Drone II x5
until they come for me. The combat drones are for the rats, RLML tengus will defang that Porp in no time. Once they bite, the initial tackle will most likely decloak within scram range of the porpoise, and therefore be itself within disrupt + web range of the Porp, which can be overheated to reach farther then any faction scram can get thanks to the Interdiction Manuever. Apply twin web alias -90% movement speed on the initial tackle, put Porp on approach on the Tengu, engage AB and capacitor warfare thingies, then warp in 3x
[Drake, Zooming DPS Drake]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Initiated Compact Warp Disruptor
Stasis Webifier II
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
[Empty High slot]
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
for some 2k kinetic dps on the Tengu. With 3 webs from the Drakes, and 2 more from the Porpoise the Drakes will apply perfectly on the T3C, and it won’t withstand actually applying 2k dps for long. Add drones on the drakes if you want to press more hotkeys. I’d recommend EC-300s because those are annoying and can be put on the other two Tengus in case those don’t run for the hills on their own.
I prefer Missiles but Turrets can do the trick, too. I’d use autocannons on the Hurricanes though, artillery kind of limits the own movement patterns, has more fitting requirements, and has lower DPS, too.
I guess Tengus are really tough and that’s why he’s suggesting that? It’s not like I’d know better so I’d believe him if no one corrected me. I thought the rapid lights would have some weakness but I can’t find any since their range reaches 40 km.
I realize that with 720s on them, the canes need a shield tank which cannot be fixed by the lone logi. Caldari light missiles would have a range of 42 km, Fury would have 32 km, and faction missiles boosted by a computer (computers compete in the mid slot for a shield boosters) would reach to 52 km. This is about… 453 Weapons DPS per Tungu using Fury? Can this work, or does it still not work? If it does work, how do you think it should be done?