my dude… you eat bait like a fish
my dude, I am the bait
that’s how good I am
The rules of the game are pretty clear. You can read every single one of them before you engage in the game – they’re perfectly transparent – and if you don’t like them, then the game simply isn’t for you. Go play a different one. If you draw some crazy conclusions from it, such as it “promoting psychopathy”, then it’s all the more not for you. EVE Online doesn’t promote psychopathy any more than any other multiplayer video game out there. You seem to draw that conclusion from very strong negative feelings you have for the game, so why bother?
If you don’t want people complaining about these things then why not add them to the license agreement people have to check when they first run Eve? Other wise they can argue and in the rarest of circumstances, take legal action due to new internet gaming laws in certain places (I.E. “forcing PvP on a player is considered harassment” or “all loot boxes must have public access statistics showing the likely hood of obtaining a product, as well as the products that could be contained with in”) Mostly in Korea or China I think but it’s good to future proof. Actually, why not have them have to agree to each of the 8 points individually so they can’t just skip them?
This is a very interesting statement. Another interesting statement:
… if a pilot feels entitled to play this multiplayer, PVP game as a single-player campaign, we don’t want them here. We want to drive them to either grow as a player, or to go back to WoW. We see this sort of player as toxic to the community at large, because EVE is shaped so much by its playerbase, directly by their actions, and indirectly by their lobbying for changes to the game. Our greatest fear is that they will turn this game into a theme park and, in doing so, ruin everything that is unique and special about EVE Online.
To me, there’s a certain hypocrisy at play here: as @ISD_Stall says, there would be no EVE without the PvPers, gankers, pirates and whatnot, but there would also be no EVE without highsec mining, incursion and such. There’s an undercurrent of entitlement both in the carebear solo miner attitude and in @Morrigan_Laima’s statement that “we don’t want them here”. Both groups feel like they own the game and this kind of passion about it is, to me, one of the things that make EVE such a great game. For better or for worse, the conflicting worldviews in EVE (spaceviews? galaxyviews?) mirrors our own conflicts and it is this human drama that makes the emergent narratives in the game so compelling.
If anything, this thread is useful. New players often feel lost and confused and this kind of guidelines-not-rules thread is great to help them understand the game better. However, EVE seems to me to be a game about freedom at its core and the very best thing is exactly the fact that these are guidelines, not rules: you can, if you really want, not follow any of it and you can whine and complain about it. Will it solve anything? Probably not, but the fact that a lot of people do that is very telling.
Anyways, that’s just my two cent on this matter.
According to CCP Falcon’s logic, if I come up to him at Fanfest and kick him in the balls, he consented to that simply because he was in the same area as me and therefore he opened himself up to the possibility of being kicked in the balls.
Yup, and we all accept that such things are a possibility. Bad things happen and the only thing keeping them from happening more often is the concept of consequences. Ganking happens but concord arrives. You can assault a dev but, as was pointed out, there will be consequences for that, too. (pray his GF is not nearby)
If you do not accept that bad things can happen when you go out of the house how do you manage, on a day to day basis? You manage the worry, judge the risks and proceed.
Every time someone says ‘trust me’ in this game, I automatically don’t. I doubt you know any gankers well enough to know their motivations, and unless you’re a mind-reader or can demonstrate your psychological credentials, I’m going to have to stick with not trusting you. You seem like just a very sore individual who just doesn’t understand this game or its purpose as the single most unique PVP gaming experience in existence. The fact is, you can call people psychos or whatever you want all you like. It’s not going to change the game, or the players you hate so much, it’s only going to make the people you hurl invectives at want to kill you more, and until you develop a legitimate understanding of the core nature of this game, it can only ever make you salty because you’ll just never be good at it. You can only choose to be a victim in EVE, nobody makes you one but yourself. But keep frothing at the mouth about how psycho everyone is if you insist, see what it accomplishes for you.
At least one ISD has openly admitted that EVE promotes psychopathic behaviour, and if you ask the developers they would probably admit it too. Stop popping off about things you know nothing about.
Wikipedia says: "Psychopathy is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits."
Is it antisocial to show the players the harshness of the EVE universe?
Is there a social rule that says “don’t shoot weak coplayers”? No, there is the golden rule “you’ll be shot almost certainly, prepare for it, because it’s in the game.” So it’s not asocial behavior but playing a game.
Asocial behaviour would be frauding with accounts or real money transactions or heavily stalking a rival in RL. But in the game, it’s just shooting for fun.
Children shooting each other with stick guns are no asocial killers, too. They just replay films and adventures. And even after they learned that killing is the worst action you can do in society they enjoy laserhalls and paintball, these psychos… Because they know that no-one’s dead afterwards, maybe pissed, but in most cases everybody had fun.
Shooting virtual spaceships is no psychopathy. It’s killboard fame
Note to myself: My first name is part of the definition of psychopathy…
Hello Kitty flies a VNI.
Sorry I must be blind, where was that part where he admitted to this? Looks like he was just saying that without destruction(death) from ships the circle of life wouldn’t work out too well.
Destruction/Death -> Miners Mine -> Industrialists Build -> Marketeers Sell -> Combat Players(“PvP”) Buy - > Destruction/Death and the cycle continues.
I would like to just remind people that while we use the term PvP usually for combat, PvP truly means Player vs. Player. This doesn’t necessarily mean combat or ganking but this could also mean that someone goes and bumps your ship and then runs away or scans your ship or invites you to a fleet and brings you on missions. Any of this is possible and more (not a comprehensive list) and NOT limited to ganking/combat. With that in mind…
You’re consenting to Player vs Player contact when you click “undock”. Don’t expect EVE to hold your hand throughout your career if that is what you’re expecting, you make your own choices and have to live with the consequences from there (You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea.). If you want to truly be safe the best spot is docked in an NPC station some where (In most cases, the only way to be 100% safe from aggression inside the game is to be docked in a station. Being cloaked in a secret safespot could work too.) but there are a lot of systems out there in Empire (Hi and Low Sec) space that is abandoned and has few or no people in it. It’s quite easy to find those systems and make it your home. If no one is in the system it can be quite safe (with the exception from PvE if that’s what you’re doing).
If you do find that Eve is holding your hand, it is advisable to check that any rings, bracelets, watches and digits are still present afterwards.
Comparing EVE Online to real life doesn’t hold water, because in real life you don’t get to choose what kind of life you’re born into, you’re just thrown into it and forced to make the best of your circumstances. Whereas in EVE Online people sign up and in most cases pay for the privilege, in full knowledge of the rules, and if it turns out they don’t like the game or it’s culture, they are free to just quit without causing a lot of grief to their family and loved ones.
Real life violence causes PTSD and may scar people for life, but only the most sensitive and fragile of personalities would get PTSD from losing an imaginary space ship, and those people really should be playing something else. There are lots of opportunities these days, games for all kinds of personalities and playstyles. EVE Online is designed to be a hardcore PvP game and that’s what it’s long-term success is based on - it caters to that kind of audience, when very few other games do.
I feel like it’s worth elaborating on this statement a bit. The thing that has made EVE Online special is the freedom to be the hero or the villain and even change from one moment to the next, the assumption of risk in virtually everything you do, and the lengths to which the developers go to not interfere in the sandbox. So long as you keep your activities within the confines of the game, the consequences of your actions are also entirely within the confines of the game - you won’t for instance, have a GM intervene because you scammed someone or blew up their ship in an underhanded way, because these events are regarded as part of the game.
In virtually every other game, even those claiming to be sandboxes, the limits are imposed as edicts from on high, like some sort of divine intervention. Oh? Someone stole everything you own? Here… have it back. That’s not a sandbox, that’s a theme park, and there are plenty of those out there.
In my mind, the sooner you can show a player loss, the more likely they will be to realize that it’s not the end of the world, and eventually grow to accept and even embrace.
I know full well that mining and industry build the very ships I fly - I just want players to realize there’s more to the game than just that. PVP in EVE Online isn’t some scary thing, you just have to accept that you are going to win some and lose some in the course of it.
Get out there, take some risks, and make some friends, you’ll thank me later
Consider the following argument:
In my mind, the sooner a player understands that no matter how accepted loss and risk may be to another player he still might choose to avoid it at all costs, the more likely they will be to realize that it’s not the end of the world, and eventually grow to accept and even embrace.
I know full well that PvP is the main activity and culture in the game, without which there simply would be no game - I just want players to realize there’s more to the game than just that. Not doing PVP in EVE Online can be a fun thing to some people and as long as those people understand that they’re never really safe and accept that they are going to win some and lose some in the course of it.
What would you say to something like that?
To me, your argument and this one are basically the same, only about different views. And the fact that both are right is what make EVE great IMO.
“Just pointing out how terribly illogical you are.”
I came up with more rules:
Eve is dying
- It’s a tradition to post “EvE is dying” threads. First one appeared not long after game release in 2003
- Lack of “Eve is dying” posts is an indicator of Eve actually dying.
PLEX prices are always too high
- Not sure what to add. Look at PLEX price. Too high, right?
Never overestimate stupid people in very large groups
- But don’t underestimate them in smaller groups. 200 man strong fleet won’t attack or even tackle you without direct orders (FC might be afk or just ignoring your destroyer gang), on the other hand a small camp with 3 APM and even fewer brain cells is bad news.
This is something incredibly important that I, as a new player took way too long to realize. EVE is fundamentally distinct from pretty much every common MMORPG available in lots of aspects, but this is the one that actually took me by surprise - and which usually leads to new players raging in local about, in-game.
People who read about CONCORD while looking at this game usually associate it with “town guards” or whatever similar they’ve seen in another RPG - as in, being there all the time and responding immediately to curb undue violence. This is something I could see being added to the NPE, so new players already get the confusion out of the way.
All eight of these rules would be welcome in the NPE, actually.
Except if you cloak up.
Then you’re as safe as spinning your ship in station.
Gotta get 2000m away from the station before you can cloak though.
And even if cloaked, there are always cats that might walk on your keyboard.
Undock = certain death
Irony becomes you.