A Proposed Solution to the problem of Newcomers in Industry

Nah. You used to be able to get nocxium from pyroxeres. It was just a small amount, but it was better than nothing. They removed it from the ore a while back, though.

You actually truly think that someone is going to pay $15/month to be a loser?

Newer players could actually make a decent profit by manufacturing, but selling elsewhere rather than at trade hubs. It’s only The biggest trade hubs that suffer from this problem.

Also, nobody knows how the prices are going to pan out yet anyway. Wait and see first.

They already do. Because being a “loser” in EVE is not so bad. In other words, viable.

I don’t know where on Earth people get the idea that they’re entitled to compete with the big dogs right away, or ever.

Industry is semi passive income or a way to reduce your costs. The only reason for a new player to not partake in industry is lack of understanding. Despite what is said in this thread, there are tech1 items that are not only profitable to build but actually have higher margins than battleships and tech2 items.

No noob meaningfully engages in any activity except perhaps pvp and that’s situational as well. Players need to shake off this idea that they should instantly make billions with no investment.

Industry is a secondary income profession. You set your manufacturing jobs and then you have to find something else to do. Usually, it’s mining or something like that. Whatever you pick to fill the time with inbetween amnufacturing jobs is your primary ISK maker.

ISK isn’t supposed to come from one place only. You need to find smart ways to combine different ISK making methods in an efficient way. If there is any critism to be had, it’s that the game doesn’t teach you this, you have to figure it out for yourself.

Fact check.

No, Eve is not a competitive game. It is a MMO that is in no way fairly game moderated, some players in Eve are where they are because CCP put them there.

A lot of dissatisfaction in Eve stems from its lack of competitiveness, developer corruption & non transparent game moderation.

Nearly all major space drama over the year is a result of this.

Opinion check: your facts are opinions.


There isn’t an alternative. The choice isn’t industry OR mining. It isn’t industry OR mission running.

Industry has minimal impact on other activities. It instead often complements other activities.

Before calling yourself a fact checker, you should perhaps understand what a fact is.

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Everyday a new lucas fail. :man_facepalming:

Not only can new players do both trading and industry and diversify between the two, but industry does not require you to stay near a market hub like you’re telling them to. Industry does not affect the other activities they indulge in like station trading does.

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fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight fight

It took me years of training and billions and billions worth of skill books, BPOs and research to get to the point where I made a decent profit as a builder.

A new player these days can match that profit easily by buying some SP and training immediately into the skills needed to run any of the ISK fountains that CCP is trying to bribe people into staying with.

Industry is way at the bottom of the list of things to do for a new player. So farting around with the mechanic accomplishes nothing for CCP. It’s not going to incentivize anyone to start that career path. It’s busywork for devs trying to stay employed.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

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If I want to build in a game EVE wouldn’t be my first choice of game. There are at least two dozen games out there that perfectly simulate that activity and EVE isn’t one of them.
I don’t know what they’re trying to accomplish over at CCP but they need to realize one thing: EVE will never be more than a space Pew-Pew game. A somewhat entertaining Pew-Pew game ( if you’re willing to overlook the devastatingly boring travel timesink ) but still a very small part of space adventure gaming.

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I bet i can make a bigger strawman than this:

So you’re saying having active jobs in the industry window disables the market interface?

At the end of the day, industry is something new players can do along side other activities (eXcEPt StAtIoN TrAdInG :crazy_face:). There’s no reason for new players not to do it aside from lack of knowledge or the attitude that they need to break in big first time.

What percentage of the entire price do those low/null minerals constitute though, per blueprint? What is it, like 5, 10%? I dont know of a lot of new players who would go to that distance to get 5-10% of the cost of the blueprint. LIterally, thats like 90% profit.

Again, I dont see this as an issue.

Lets take the Raven for example. Pretty standard L4 ship that a lot of new players use.

Current mat prices are around 352 million isk, if you were to buy outright.

I bought the minerals, and tried to directly sell it. Only sells for 247 million.

Meanwhile, people are buying ravens at around 300 million isk, Selling at 340.

New players arent going to be creating dozens and dozens of sell orders and wont be doing the 0.1 isk game either.

So yes, It is profitable to build. Especially for new players. This isnt even a Niche item, its a very common item.

I dont think a lot of new players are running L4s off the bat, especially not solo. When you consider how it takes time to grind l1, l2, l3 missions, then the rise is comparable to industry. If youre a brand new player, you dont start the game by flying L4s, and neither should you start industry by making a dent. L1 and L2 missions give out completely comparable, that is to say, very minimal amounts of ISK.

I cant even understand what you mean by this. T2 crafting has never been worth it for me, no matter what stage of industry i was at. Everything I did in industry that meant anything was something that any new player can acheive, because even when i was building Supercarriers and selling them, (mostly)none of those materials were acheivable from mining in hisec. I built my first carrier from within the ores that i got from hisec, after all.(Nidhoggur, by the way, and i lost it in a very annoying but must say high praise gank.) Building cruisers isnt too different from building Battleships, you just make more units, and more units means the profits average themselves out. You can make 1 raven or 20 stabbers, the amount you get events itself out.

So what? Do you know how many raven blueprints copies exists out there? Do you know how much they are sold for today?

The older players who buy these originals the moment they come out, will have a small amount of time where they have the monopoly, but thats it. Copies are made, sold, and eventually they become so saturated that anyone can access them with ease. In that sense, I believe Older players who buy these originals, are doing a service to everyone else in the industry. They make copies, which means that everyone else can afford to make them without shilling out billions for the original.

Remember, the originals are originally sold by NPCs. Their cost is set at whatever billions of isk CCP set it as, and no one has access to cheaper versions. The older players have to shill out billions to buy the originals, with the full knowledge that the copies they make will be sold at a fraction, a fraction of the price.

The only way new players are going to be able to afford to make these new structures/modules/stuff is if older players buy them and sell the copies. Lets not trick ourselves into thinking that without older players, new players would be able to somehow afford these blueprints. Its the direct opposite.

The raven example i gave above pretty much demonstrates that youre wrong, but what youre saying makes no sense. I built all my firsts, My first obelisk, anshar, Nidhoggur, Phoenix, Hel. I afforded the fittings because I built more things. I built like 7 or 8 Supercarriers, cant remember the exact number. I built all 6 of my rorquals. I built god knows how many carriers. Fewer dreads though, those took longer and were more of a bother for me to build. Thats how an Industry toon should work. You dont just build a single Battleship and say “Thats it, thats all im gonna build, industry for me is over. Now how do i Fit this battleship? I have no more isk”.

I cant even fathom the logic behind what youre saying.

Blueprint costs are NOTHING. Even when i was making Supercarriers, I would just go around contracts in jita and accept the cheapest bulkiest capital ship part blueprints.

Case and point, a 10/20 Raven blueprint is being sold for 3.5 million isk in jita contracts right now. That is nothing. Are you really an industry-focused player? I never knew anyone who ever found themselves worrying about blueprint costs. Copies are available for dirt-cheap and even when i was making dozens of carriers i still didnt consider buying originals because i had so many copies.

Sure. But I just dont understand your reasoning at all. As someone who came up from nothing, and loved building my first ships ive ever used, industry has always been accessible to me. I didnt have a 12 man fleet of Hulks and a dedicated Orca/Hauler, it was just a single account mining in a retreiver. I was ganked, I made friends with the Ganker, I joined Code because they are such an amazing group of people, And yes, with my single account, I was still a tiny fish in a tiny pond and i couldnt do anything to compete with larger entities, but that didnt matter, i still made isk, bought my own tower so that i could get better refining rates and access to compression, etc etc. Newer players have it a lot easier now.

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Its been a while since i did hisec mining/refining/building so yeah, that may be the case.

With anything market-related though, you need to find the proper thing to build before deciding what to put your time/effort/isk into. I never went into Modules for that very same reason, but I made tons by building ships. I looked at the market, did the rough calculations by myself, caluclated how much ore i needed to mine, etc, and refined and built it.

Brand new players are already encourged by a lot of people to mine, industry is only a single step above that.

Does it take a little time and effort to research how much minerals/ore you need, what sells and what doesnt, etc? Sure. But thats the same with everything else in EVE.

Can I ask why youre completely cutting out the mining aspect of industry? I did a lot of mining, I know a lot of new players also do a lot of mining, and I do consider it a part of industry.

Why does everyone forget about I Choose You Holdings? These guys have FREAKING SOYOTOS XL industry ready to go with free offices. No risk to new players and all the benefits of these billions of isk monstrosity. You think a new player should pay 15 USD and by the end of the first month should be cranking out battleships or whatever after 30 days?

Just no. Make friends and group up. Find a group that is doing what you are. I don’t know that other orca in that ice belt; ask them what’s up. See where it goes. Use what’s around you. New corps and players don’t all need their own structures.

Did you hurt yourself in your confusion?

Well no because you can make consumables like ammo with very little starting capital and the cost saving is immediate. And you don’t have to travel AND you can do it whilst you do other activities.

Mods and such also take little investment to get started in.

No. Your position is:

There’s no point in noobs doing industry because they can sit in a station and station trade for better income.

You’re saying noobs shouldn’t make their own ammo whilst they run missions or make some mods on the side before heading to a market with their LP items. You’re saying instead of doing any industry, they should sit in a market all day and station trade.

Or would you like to change the goal posts some more.

The reality is that you can make money with industry if you don’t sell your stuff at the trade hubs. The trade hubs are the places where the cheapest items are sold, so obviously if you sell there then you will make the least amount of money. The reason is because it’s easy to sell at trade hubs so the competition is extremely high.