A Proposed Solution to the problem of Newcomers in Industry

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Lucas_Kell

Yes, I am saying that a new player, who is new and therefore not yet settles in a long term home, should position themselves in range of a profitable activity rather that follow you crazy advice of inefficiently manufacturing stuff then hauling it periodically to a hub hoping not to get ganked on the way.

My advice is that there is no reason not to do industry on top of what they are already doing.

UnLeSs ThEiR StAtIoN TrAdInG

@Lucas_Kell

You complained about having to stay near a station to trade and I pointed out that you pretty much have to stay near a station to manufacture stuff too.

The difference being that only a small number of stations are suitable for trading.

[Solonius_Rex]

@Cendric_De_Credsiu

If you are selling at immediate sale yes, if you are selling at the long term sell orders no you will be able to sell the mats for more. If you are serious about industry then that is something you start looking at fairly fast.

Come on. New players arent going to be doing that, though. They dont have the patience and cannot afford to stay in jita playing the isk game.

I mean, you just finished talking about how someone who decides to use or sell a raven cant afford any of its fittings and is therefore useless, implying they are impatient and cant wait to build more stuff and sell them for a profit to be able to afford fittings for that raven. And now youre saying theyre gonna be patient and wait till they sell something as fast-moving as minerals, where people are constantly contesting your sale price? Come on, man. Lets be honest here.

@Cendric_De_Credsiu

You are also glossing over the fact that the raven blue print depending on market is 1.13 billion for a BPO. Yes you can buy copies from players and I think perhaps even get a copy from the occasional daily omega reward but at the end of the day that is a cost that needs to be factored in for consistent income from it.

No, im not.

I told you this already.

Raven copies sell for 3.5 million isk each. 3.5 million isk? For a ship that sells right now for 300 million? are you kidding me? Having to account for 1 percent, ONE PERCENT of the cost of selling the item, is not something that needs to be factored in.

Look at this. Look at this.

10 run 10/20 Raven blueprint for 2.4 million isk.

10 runs.

Perfect copy.

2.4 million isk.

What considerations need to be factored for something like this???

Can you please be honest with me here???

@Cendric_De_Credsiu

Perceptions tend to be stronger than reality of a situation from a new player perspective. Honestly speaking industry is one of the least accessible parts of the game from that new player perspective. Its over whelming, honestly I avoided it for the first year I played except for mining simply because of how complex it is and how much the market can change from day to day. We need to find a way to make industry a bit less complex, more intuitive to get started in, and a little better explained in game via menu’s or what have you.

Again, Mining is the foothold into industry. You keep making the mistake of thinking that its not really industry until you actually build something, and that isnt true. You yourself admit that when you were new, you mined. Mining IS a part of the industry and its the first step into industry.

So yes, because of mining, industry is one of the MOST accessible part of the game. You yourself admit it.

@Cendric_De_Credsiu

When I started I was in L4 missions in about two months. Fast tracking combat skills and getting into a Battle Cruiser and fitting it in two months is entirely doable. I also had the advantage of an experienced player that got me into the game to teach me what skills to train to what levels to get them good enough to run them. Due to the time factor L3 missions might be slightly more ISK per hour compared to L4’s but I haven’t done the math on that. So yes starting out it is faster and better for a player to take the mission running path. Add in abyssal’s and with a Vexor drone fit, I can make about 10 to 15 mill an hour depending on drops. Vexor drone fit for ratting only takes about 12 days to get into.

And, what, new players cannot get into mining straight away, let alone 2 months in? It takes 12 days to get into a mining barge too. How much ISK do those make an hour? Depending on the ore, what, 10, 12, 15 mill an hour?

If you save it for a couple hours, couple days, you can even build something even bigger for more profit.

Meanwhile, doing L4s is skill-intensive and ship-intensive, or it becomes time-intensive. If youre alone, you end up having to warp in and out because you cant handle the DPS, or you end up having to skip a lot of missions because they are too dangerous/tough for you.

Id say entry level mining/industry is about the same as entry level L1-2 missions, wouldnt you agree? And by the time you hit 2-3 months, youve got a decent amount of skill for mining and building, but for missioning, especially L4s, its going to be really slow.

@Cendric_De_Credsiu

Thats pretty much the entire point that people are wanting to change. Its much better for a new player to actually do other activities than industry from the ISK making perspective. Personally I dont think that needs to change but rather the perceptions and I cant think of the right word but basically easier to understand and figure out rather than being the complex beast that it is.

Okay, so tell me. What part about industry is complex to a new player?

[Lucas_Kell]

@Daichi_Yamato

My advice is that there is no reason not to do industry on top of what they are already doing.

Sure, you’ve made that clear. Let’s just hope you never get the opportunity to inflict your advice on new players.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Lucas_Kell

Sure, you’ve made that clear. Let’s just hope you never get the opportunity to inflict your advice on new players.

Compared to telling them that if they aren’t staying in one area of the game trading all day they are doing it wrong?

Ok…

[Lucas_Kell]

Again with the strawman. Both of us are talkign about a passive side activity players can do while doing other things. You’re just suggesting an inefficient activity because you’re not very experienced. Again though, you do you. If manufacturing your own ammo from reprocessed mission loot is what you want to do, by all means carry on.

[Rich_Darine]

@Gerard_Amatin

Opinion check: your facts are opinions.

@Daichi_Yamato

Did you hurt yourself in your confusion?

@Scoots_Choco

All I’m seeing is people making up non-existent and mythical “newcomer” players

Same.

[Aiko_Danuja]

Newbros can gank industrialists.

[Vaendil_Reyksen]

You’re full of it.

[Solonius_Rex]

@Rich_Darine

Same

Yes, we all know this game is dying. There are no new players. Duh.

[Krimmins]

We need an RMT option for sp. Give better ISK for RMTing for plex. In fact, have a direct IRL money - PLEX. We also need direct IRL money - SP. This is what will make this game better. You get more money, we get more content.

[Lara_Agnon]

right-click blueprint and click on ‘use blueprint’ without having it inside the player ship cargohold.

[Dantelion_Shinoni]

A lot of people in this thread need to learn about Opportunity Costs and Market Cornering.

Pretty much, Mining is a moot point here, we are talking about Industry and in that case the role Mining fills can easily be filled by the Market too, so it’s not specific to Industry. And frankly, that’s one of the first things I learned in EVE so I’m surprised so many here don’t already get it, there is no point mining that ore if someone is selling it for cheaper than you’d make it, you waste time which has a value.

And also, sure Newbies can make some profits out of plenty of T1, but they are not in control. No I was not saying newbs should be able to make billions, I was saying they should be able to impact the game.
How hard would it be to eviscerate that Raven corner by lowering the margins to the point that people without the skills and BPs (originals or copies) get priced out of the market? Like Opportunity Costs, it is a real thing and has to be accounted for.

What I am saying is that opportunities should exist in what is already a pretty cornered part of the game for New Players to get a foot in the door and actually compete, instead of just being let it for now. And indeed producing outside the trading hubs is one of those types of opportunities, although not a very viable one since right now the game seems to be prone to Industrial and Market centralization.

[0Lona_0ltor]

CCP should make a video of the history of T2BPO then they would not need to worry about newcomers to industry anymore.