You know, decs were never truly easy… back then, you still needed skills to make a good use of all the available tools. And when you had found your target, sometimes they were waiting for you and your fleet mates. Skill was useful to know when a situation was bait, or when a logoff trap had been setup.
Most of these still apply so all the stuff we learned is still useful to some extent.
Methods were lost, but the knowledge is ours.
So to those saying that they were easier back then, nah… you probably never even did it.
You needed a good skillset and you needed to be a quick learner to get anywhere.
Lastly (somehow related but not really), if anyone needs links lmk, I don’t really ask for anything but explosions heheheh
Can I ask if Vendetta has got a citadel while I was gone?
Last time I talked privately with your CEO he asked me why the hell we had a structure in-house.
Why was that? Hmm…
On another note… the war room or the requirement for a citadel to get watchlist functionality, would that also mean the defender in a war had to put up the same “war room” to get the same advantage as the agressor?
I can speak for leadership so maybe @Natural_CloneKiller can back what I’m about say. It’s obvious that there’s no real benefit to having your structures in-house. That’s said… of course we have and use Citadels. Until CCP adds something of value that is directly tied to the corp / alliance owning the structure outright, then I see little point.
VMG is the big bad boogeyman, we know… and before VMG it was someone else (probably BAW). If we were forced to anchor a structure we would be “fine”. We’ve proven that we can throw punches against groups twice our size, and it makes it better with the diplomacy options we have.
Some call it bending the knee or selling out… I call it smart diplomacy. I can’t help but think that part of the reason you experienced burnout is not only the watchlist change, but when the big bad bogeymen come after you. Maybe you should have played the game of diplomacy a bit different. So yeah, I’m 100% confident that we could defend our structures. Keeping them out of alliance is just a way to manage risk, and is a perfectly fine strategy. Look at the deaths of people that use out of corp haulers, neutral scouts, and many other ways to manage risk and still accomplish a goal. I will say with certainty that we would be perfectly fine, having to adapt to the new risks, while other groups couldn’t handle it.
Marmite on the other hand just lost every POCO their holding corp owned in Balle. How embarrassing is that? Enlighten us @Tora_Bushido how you’re going to spin this one? Maybe you can also tell us about your 7b wartarget freighter wreck you guys popped because “VMG were coming”. Talk about managing risk…
To be honest, with the way Upwell structures work currently The service module would have to be restricted to Alliance / Corporation use only. Otherwise you could just add your neutral alts to the permissions list and have the structure out of corp.
To go off the question you posed,… yes. If CCP is going to give us some kind of functioning watchlist in that form, then if a defender wants it, he ought to have to provide his own way of obtaining it. Citadels are cheap compared to the ISK that’s floating around in the game. Plus I can imagine some kind of huge mega-corp that exists to invite anyone interested to take advantage of their watchlist services.
The “big bad boogeyman” did not come after us until Ralph put a finger up his butt tho… and had no reason for my burnout. I only came back to smack PIRAT on the nose for trying, find a place for my guys who resubbed for it and retire again.
Its a structure, if there are no constraints they’ll be deployed enmasse and if they are constrained, the redundant units will be in 1 man alt corps ready to bring in when the first one goes down. ie it will never be worth shooting one, and its raising the hitpoints on the attackers side, which is not required, since the targets rarely even remove the hitpoints from a ship. never mind that its probably going to be a needle in a haystack search to find them.
I don’t want or need the feature.
Which applies to you too. Not only that, this is a forum discussion, I don’t need to be careful, if there are intrinsic issues with my arguments, I’m sure that you’ll stop formulaic “I don’t want to argue about my point dismissals” and jump right on them.
Its an out of corp / never has to undock during a war feature / requires a type of play that an aggressive player probably doesn’t even want to do (standings raising), will just be bought by those players as an alt.
its a discussion, I’m putting forward the general principle that motivating organisations from the bottom up to want to fight is something worth discussing.
If watchlist comes back, I bet on characters of players who can afford it simply being logged on 24/7, so that it makes the logged on/not logged on information worthless again. As in, you can locate a player, and maybe see him in local, but you’re still not sure whether he’s active, idle, AFK, or sleeping or at work.
Note the “who can afford it” limitation. As it is, it levels the playing field for those who can and those who cannot.
Speaking for my self, I’ve been “whining” about it since then. Never stopped
With they way it was done, how the feedback was handled and the clear unintentional effects on “other gameplays” showed us that they didn’t care about what was affected as long as the 0.0 guys on soapboxes was happy.
The loss of the watchlist made most of the hunters adapt and started merging into larger blanket deccing alliances to have enough content, going from hunting to fishing. This was something that started long before the change tho… but now the only viable option to have enough content.
Now with the loss of player driven content in hs (people that hunted), they are now introducing npc’s to give the pve people some of that ambience?
One thing tho… I made a career in pvp because I was killed by other players, wonder if the new addition to eve will go into pvp if he gets killed by a npc that “hunted” him?
Well, there are entire null sec regions that will serve you infinite content rather than having to spam wars in high sec and just have people dodge you, personally the watchlist removal was a good thing for multiple reasons and i’m not a 0.0 guy, the change made sense
But still most people are living in hs… well… maybe not soon, seems like hs population is dropping like a stone, hence why ccp has a focus on hs pve all of a sudden.
I blame ignorance for that. Watchlist was a tool for both aggressor and defender, and I would claim that the defender had the best advantage when it came to that. Devils have always been the smallest merc group in eve, I know how to defend myself against much larger and active groups.
Not really, better to know than to assume.
The feedback I got from my targets was that after the change was that when a dec goes live people just assume their being watched and outnumbered by the aggressor. So they stay docked or logoff.
So I would say no. At least when it comes to wardecs.
I have to say that the blanket dec approach is “mostly relying on the dumb or ignorant to get caught” tho…
I think the OP has a valid point. War decs may pay off Concorde, but the Empire Navies will not be keen on mercenary activity in their neighbourhoods. Mercenary violence is never good for trade, and scares the folks. It would be simple realism for the Empire Navy to regard aggression as creating suspect status.
It might also endorse the playing experience for all parties, especially new players, if NPC Navy ships could go to assist corps that are war dec’d. If one navy NPC came for each Omega clone, this would offer protection to newbros who get war dec’d, and maybe make it more interesting (and morally palatable) to wage war in empire space.
Lookit, I totally want to wage war on the pin heads over in Caldari Space. I hate them, I hate their ships, I hate their philosophy about soup.
Their navy hates me pretty bad. My standing is so bad that, a little while ago, they would shoot me on site like the Ammar freaks.
But I paid some dude for some favours and now i can shop at Jita.
But lookit, if i did go war deck some caldari newbro, to teach him the error of his ways, it would be completely realistic if the Caldari Navy took his side and assisted him, even if concorde are paid off. It is kind of unrealistic that they would look the other way.
And I would very much enjoy the chance to shoot and loot caldari fascist navy ships, so it coiuld be win win win.
What if the Caldari Navy loves you. You and your brave corporation have fought for them for years against the evil Gallente and you are heroes of the nation. You fund your war effort by doing some industry in their space, but a bunch of greedy, independent capsuleers set up shop in your system and start taking the resources you need for the war effort. So you declare war on them so you can violence them honourably out of the system. CONCORD is happy that you are following their rules, and you set out to explode their Upwell structure. Why would the Caldari Faction Navy now want to shoot you, heroes of the nation? Why would they suddenly decide you are criminals and attack you? That isn’t realistic at all.
If we are going to play the realism card, it would need to go both ways. If NPCs are going to get involved with capsuleer affairs, then standings should matter and guide their actions and sometimes they help you, and sometimes the hunt you depending on your past actions, not just assist all defenders. But really, this is a player-driven sandbox game and the NPCs are little more than a colourful backdrop for the real PvP game between the players. I am all for making them more life-like, but the OPs suggestion doesn’t do that. It is just completely tilts the war mechanic in favour of the defender which will limit interactions between players.
If you want to fight one of the NPC empires, you can already do that in multiple ways. There is no need to tie the war declaration mechanic used to settle differences between the independent capsuleers of New Eden to such mundane concerns as the petty squabbles of the mere humans and their so-called empires.
This is a rather weak excuse, IMO. NS has always been there. Hunting people in NS and HS are very, very different. This is so weak it is pretty much bordering on a non-sequitur.
Absolutely, when our HS industrial corp was decced by a “small” war deccing corp, I’d use the watchlist. I’d use EVEWho and stick in all the names and then see who was online and even run locators to see if they were near me/us. It worked for both sides…well if the defenders actually thought to use it.
The change, in the absence of a replacement, made little sense. It simply cut out content and drove people to mass deccing. Yes, yes, yes, I know mass deccing started before the watchlist removal FFS, you can stop saying that now.
Or I simply have awesome standings due to killing the right kind of pirates? Might the navy not simply “look the other way” when I show up and blow up some guy who has no standings at all? Keep in mind that many of the war deccers had/have good standings with all 4 empires so that they could ply their trade and use different locator agents.
