Answer this: -Do you think Cap+ players are entitled to special treatment?
Cap pilots are a tiny minority.
All of us pay the same sub they do.
Even if it is true that CCP offers them preferential treatment, should we accept that?
Hell no!
Locator Agents track capsuleer location, not what ship they are in, or whether they are online.
Locator Agents will report everywhere except WHs, and this can be directly connected to the existence of Local, everywhere except WHs.
They dont have any rational arguments to stand on.
Open/shut case.
Furthermore, NOT implementing this change on account of a minority of cap pilots, would invoke the inverse of Malcanisā Extended Law. Exempting NS or Caps pilots from Locator Agents would advantage only that minority, at the expense of everyone else.
exposing more structures to wars, is not war structures. those would appear to be different concepts to me.
yes, but why make the objective a structure. why make the task about a structure. why would anyone want more of that, when you yourself say people donāt like shooting structures. Iām told that the only thing people like less than shooting structures is watching someone wand a structure. ie its on the entosis scale of bad if not at the same magnitude.
Actually, I donāt want anything to change for current decs, Iām perfectly fine with mass decs. What I want is for people who donāt dec to be given more reasons for pressing it. I also personally think that aiming to make the game more advantageous to be in functional pvp/pve corps over 1 man tax avoidance corps would probably be a good thing.
There we go, elite players.
Its a really weak feature and pointless busy work, canāt mask that with insults.
it is not a reason for people who donāt press the dec button to press it.
It really isnāt an unreasonable goal. The insult doesnāt do much for your argument.
the feature got deleted for this reason.
As long as the people that are not great are motivated to keep trying, theyāll still be there.
I canāt resolve your jekyl/hyde structure issue for you, I can only point it out.
Thank you for making my point on my previous post to Aaron.
As I said to him, doing ONLY focused decs would kill the activity in his corp.
And I alsoā¦ Iāve spoken against this type of game play for years, In it self it would be a personal defeat if I turned Devils into one of them.
Andā¦ sorry to say itā¦ if you fall back to something for content because the other options arenāt available or to much work to do all the time, it is the easier way. No matter how you turn it.
You might know that āwarsā in EvE Online and wars in RL are pretty different. And the simpliest difference is that in EvE Online you can completely evade any āwarā. Logging off or staying docked works well.
Also dropping corporation.
So yes, to have meaningful war in the game you NEED both parties to have an interest in it. Unlike of RL wars.
A couple of things.
Iāve been against hubcamping and blanket decs not because I think its bad for the game. Iāve always said thereās need for one entity like that in highsec. But when everyone and their granny uses that approach I think its bad, but my original statement still stands.
And yes, I was burned out before the move to null. You knowā¦ Ralph had a whole thread about it on the old forums
Personally i would prefer something where target has meaningful means to get under the radar.
In your first case one needs to attack the structure (which is not an option for miners, for example).
In your second case target is always traceable without any means to hide.
Thatās why i propose holes for WH or 0.0 sec space for locator agents - to give person way to hide from being located. Not the best solution for sure and might be the worst but at least i tried to add options to logging off for a week or staying docked.
Soā¦ I had an idea back when they removed the watchlist how to āfixā wars.
First allowing watchlist to work IF a wardec was active.
This will help defenders have a tool to see if their aggressors is online or not, and in effect if itās safe to undock. It will also give back the possibility to be able to do āfocused warsā and limit the amount of wardecs needed. Watchlist functionality have to be limited to highsec. (maybe include lowsec with a delay?)
Then introduce a defensive structure for corp and alliances.
This would be a structure you have to anchor in space, visible on scan and not be anchored within 1000km of anything.
The structure would have the same ehp and reinforce timers as a Poco. (just an example) Its area of effect would cover just the system itās anchored in and online it would take 24h.
Having this structure anchored and online while at war will āshieldā you from being visible on watchlist and locates within its area of effect. If you leave the comfort of your home area you will be shown as online and locatable.
Alternatively have different sizes of defensive structure. Small for system protection, medium include surrounding systems. The structures canāt be anchored within another structures area of effect. (Canāt overlap)
Neutrals
Remove 3rd party involvement from legal engagements in highsec. (Wars and Duels)
Interfering in a legal fight should be a criminal act in highsec. Neutral rep has been a cancer on life in highsec for a while now and should be looked at.
Allies
Repping an alli that has joined the same war as you should not give you a suspect flag. Not gonna write much about thisā¦ itās a logical flaw in the mechanics we have lived with for many yearsā¦
Corporations
The cost of making a corp should atleast be on par with the cost of deccing said corp as a minimum. Iām also think there should be some benefit of being loyal to your corp in one way or another.
My point was back then that instead of giving aggressors another hoop to jump trough, give the defenders a means to counteract the āopā watchlist. And give corp and alliances a reason to group up and co-operate in wars.
More structures is bad for EVE, and even worse for highsec.
By the same logic it should also be removed from lowsec, because the outcome is no different. Also, you may as well stop logistics from healing anyone outside your corp/alliance at that rate. All that would do in the end is get rid of a lot of content, especially for the NPSI community.
This would also upset Anti-Ganking, as they wouldnāt be able to rep those poor gank victims! Ha!
Letās say, however, that would you propose happens. The outcome for people trying to attack wardeccers is no different; they just bring their logi into their corp/alliance. Itās not like they go anywhere without it anyway. Adapt or die, am I right?
Yes, I dont like the idea with more structures eitherā¦ but when this came up it was in contrast to having a citadel to be able to dec or be decād.
Its a compromise for getting the watchlist back
Exactly, for the people trying to attack wardeccers would be certain that none of the 20 spectators is ready with a logi ship if the fight turns. If you can see their numbers or at least know who can interfere in a fight you are so much better off than just guessing or worse assuming they have logi and dont take the fight.
As someone who used to love hunting and still does from time to time (having a baby creates time restraints now) I always thought citadels would be great to solve the watchlist problem after I read a blog suggesting the idea.
New service module, the war room - allows you to see online war targets and run locates BUT must be anchored by the alliance in war.
If too powerful, maybe only show online players in that region itās anchored.
Another option which would also be good is to allow citadels to equip level 3/4 locate agents, fees could be set by the citadel owner.
Added : Citadels are great platforms that could easily be built on and expanded.
You are missing my point. It is not what I agree with or not. In fact, I agree that doing something that makes super caps safer is not good game design. The removal of the watchlist, IMO, was not good game design, especially when it so adversely impacted one part of the game and made a part disliked by a subset of players (mass war deccing) without a replacement.
Dude, sometimes rational arguments make absolutely no difference. Do I think/want super cap pilots to be safer? No. Does CCP? That was one of the primary effects of the removal of the watchlist. The other was to make focused war decs largely a thing of the past.
You can have all the logic and reason on your side and still lose.
I also read the war room suggestion, I didānt draw the same conclusion you did tho.
With the requirement to have the structure in house you basicly deny the smaller groups that option. Leaving the blue donut of highsec with all the power. Or in best case you need to put up a new citadel every other week.
You are the type of person who will let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Bring back the watchlist in some form and you may get this.
And careful with your reasoning here, the game is a complex adaptive process meaning that you cannot draw conclusions from a good or even excellent understanding of the component parts of the processāi.e. the players.
No, Iām pointing out that you are using special pleading and it is simply Bravo Sierra.
So what? People are playing the game and you sit there and say, āThey arenāt playing it right, and right means how I want them to play.ā
The stated reason is not the actual reason, IMO. They have left in features that are if anything worse, so I donāt believe them.
Yeah sorry I think I went a bit off track with it mixed with my own ideas but the principal behind it was such a great idea.
I miss hunting, donāt get me wrong the workaround is great but requires so much effort. With more and more games coming out that allow instant action the idea of spending 2-3 hours maybe longer to find a guy who may or may not still be online, may not be in the same system and now to top it off, might be in space or a citadel does not appeal very much.
If you cant defend your assets, thatās on you. Smaller groups in other areas of space have to worry about this, why are highsec residents an exception?
I donāt disagree, but part of the problem is that it will be very hard to accomplish this via CCP. The problem is you have to get people to voluntarily undock. If you make them undock they always have the log off and in the extreme simply quit. Most attempts at a solution are probably going to fail.
the nature of highsec wars is that usually one side completely curbstomps the other. This is evident in the amount of clueless or foolish haulers and PVE guys dying as well as āorganizedā fleets dying by our hands.
Weāve been made out to be this boogeyman that is impossible to fight or engage. Itās going to be hard to truely force or incentivize everyone to find value in wars because again, Highsec isnāt home to most pvp-capable pilots. They have to travel here to our home and play by our rules that weāve become accustomed to.
Having a war structure seems an OK idea. The war room sounds OK too. Perhaps this structure must be defended by the wardeccer in order to keep the war going and to force the deccer into PvP which may not be in their favour. I havenāt looked deep into the suggestion.
Generally I like the wardec mechanic how it is, nothing should ever be easy in Eve. Any game I have ever brought gets put on the hardest setting and played.
Whatever CCP come up with will be OK if they decide to change or revise the wardec mechanics.
Yes. Which is why I keep using the word āprocessā. My guess is it goes something like this:
New player thinks HS = safe, in actuality HS = safer/safest, but not āsafeā as in canāt be attacked.
New player runs into somebody who curb stomps him.
At this point the player can realize his error and adapt and change and become a more skilled player.
Or show up on the forums and complain about how awful it is that HS is not totally safe.
Some of the players who adapt may move on and become capable at PvP.
Trying to change that process is problematic in that it has alot going on behind even that simple description and much of it is beyond CCPs control. For example, CCP cannot force me to log in. They cannot force me to undock. They canāt force me to train PvP related skills. They canāt force me to learn about all the aspects of PvP. At best they can try to provide incentives to do so. But even there, what works for one person may not work for another.
There is no magic bullet to make people ālike war decsā who previously did not. Chances are it will be a myriad of things and finding out what those things are is not terribly easy (otherwise this thread would not be 679 posts long).
Further, the game is an open and classless game. So trying to put in a feature for ājust these guysā may very well have effects that were not expected. That is, āthose guysā might use the features, but there is nothing to prevent other subsets of players from using the feature and in ways that were not initially anticipated.
