Neither the Thukker Tribe, nor the Elders, were members of the Republic at the time. As such, they were not party to the CONCORD treaties. They were acting in their own Tribal/organizational interests. By your own statements regarding the Day of Darkness, they broke no law. CONCORD thus has no right to make those demands.
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Not members of the Republic at the time, but the Thukker were members of CONCORD, werenât they? Or do I have that wrong? If they were not, then youâre right, they broke no CONCORD laws. But as they attacked CONCORD nations, CONCORD nations are certainly free to defend themselves and pursue vindication.
But CONCORD did have a right to demand the Republic, a signatory, to not shelter the Thukker and Elders, which it did do.
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And the CONCORD nation in question did defend itself. CONCORD certainly has a right to request extradition on behalf of the Empire, but only that. After all, if they didnât violate any CONCORD treaty, then CONCORDâs authority doesnât apply. It would be like CONCORD demanding the Empire release all their slaves, and even the most vitriolic of us here havenât asserted they can (or even should) do that.
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Itâs not âon behalf of the empireâ. The Elder Fleet attacked CONCORD itself, not just the Empire. That would make them an enemy of all CONCORD â including the Republic.
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You have summed up the situation very nicely, Lt Kernher. I do have a question/comment regarding points 4 and 6 -
Is this what is demanded by the laws governing points 3 and 5? My inclination is that it is not as your listed remedy is entirely too open ended.
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Iâm not detailing the specifics. When one party commits a crime against another party, then the perpetratorâs punishment should be to the satisfaction of the offended party. What manner is appropriate for achieving satisfaction that justice was rendered is something determined in courts of law.
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The satisfaction of an offended party and a court being satisfied that justice was rendered are very different things. I acknowledge that you were not being as specific as I had assumed and am glad to see the courts were indeed in your thoughts regarding any kind of punishments or reparations.
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And here we highlight the problem with your otherwise excellent points (3) and (5): CONCORD has no real power to punish violators. Without knowing a detailed breakdown and the minutiae of how specifically CONCORDâs innermost council operates, we canât know if CONCORD even can act against any of the signatories, or if they can each simply veto any decision by the other four to enforce disciplinary measures. All we can be sure of is that so far⌠they havenât. Not really. Definitely not in any lasting or effectively punitive way.
And truly, no real will to do so, either.
Consider: The whole of the Thukker Tribe didnât retreat into Republic space. CONCORD didnât make a single move into the Great Wildlands, though, did they?
But beyond even that CONCORD doesnât want to enact any real disciplinary action against any of the empires. After all, if they did, it might upset the balance of power. Any punitive measure significant enough to be felt, to be a real deterrent to future transgressions⌠would place that side of the equation at a disadvantage. So their ally wonât allow it, either.
Penalize the Empire enough to really make them care, and the State will oppose it, lest the Federation be emboldened.
CONCORD wonât really enforce any penalties against any of the empires, because CONCORDâs entire purpose is to not upset the balance of power. Theyâre an empty threat, a paper tiger, who wouldnât even fight back against the Drifters.
The only ones CONCORD will ever punish⌠is us.
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And that is more a detriment to peace than anything else. Police that are too afraid to enforce the law ensure rampant crime.
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Just. Stop. Fighting.
Iâm Gallente af, and I like the Matari. That said, in no world is the enslavement, even of innocent people, justification for a war that will kill billions, or even trillions.
Killing damages the psyche and virtue of a person on such a fundamental level that itâs almost always the greater of all possible evils.
Neither side actually wants peace in this conflict; they want victory.
The Amarr are evil af. Letâs not deny that. But the longer this war goes on, the more the Minmatar will get covered in the filth that is their opponent.
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Ms Ameriya, coming from the Federation myself I have to say that âatâ âafâ does not make a compelling argument. Also, painting all the Amarr as evil incarnate is somewhat disingenuous, no matter how much we may agree that they are wrong.
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Iâve spent atleast 3 of the last 5 years fighting the Amarr, and I deny this. The Amarr are not evil, their religion is. Their religion is our enemy. Their religion forces their hand to strike us.
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How about weâre not evil and nor is our religion?
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Individual Amarr are not evil. Most of them, anyways. But taken as a whole, the Amarr certainly are evil. Their faith is silly, but it was written by them. Any attempt to blame the religion circles right back around to the Amarr.
Really, they can change their religion any time they want to. I love the Amarr in some ways, they are the best at doublethink.
The Empress cannot be anything but True Amarr. Well, thatâs okay, weâre going to just declare that the Udorian heir is True Amarr. Done!
They could do the same with slavery. All it takes is a single line: âAnd then God saw the Minmatar and changed His mind. They didnât need to be enslaved after all.â Heck, they could enshrine that as the Book of Amy and save a whole lot of problems.
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There is all sorts of offensiveness in that statement. But itâs Amy so Iâll let it slide so long as she promises to wear more clothes in public.
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Evil is subjective. Iâm sure Miz or I would be considered a saint to your kin? Wonât speak for myself but Miz is far from evil in our camp, atleast to me.
As far as you and your religion not being evil, If only the more vocal proponents in our camps shut their vitriolic mouths for a second and actually accepted this hypothetical as something other than a mouth piece, maybe some could see a glimmering hope of some form of peace. Whether in a vaccum or otherwise.
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Nevar!
Well, I promise that when the Amarr make me a saint, and like, make the Book of Amy, I will wear a robe that goes all the way down to my ankles.
Mind you, it wonât cover my ankles. They will still be visible.
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We have failed, my Empreror. Truly the heathen cannot be reasoned with. Alas, your dream of peace cannot be achieved. May God have mercy upon our souls.
Warm up the lasers! And fetch me an extra pair of womenâs undergarments with that cone collar! The she-beast will be tamed yet!
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Iâve seen Samira walk around with the Cone of Shame. I just assumed youâd had her spayed or something. Iâm sure sheâll lend you one.
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What.
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