Oh, agreed it doesn’t do much. But it is one step. And going alongside letting FAX & Marauder move (since they similarly can be tackled while in their special modes also), it’s another couple of steps.
I am all for what you are talking about as well. And all for Siege becoming a ‘do I/don’t I’ choice rather than a ‘Get laughed at if I don’t’.
The thing is I don’t really think it does enough to justify any cost that could reasonably be exacted barring a few horribly janky potential setups that would probably need to be nerfed anyway.
Which brings me to…
I would argue that a bad step is worse than no step at all. Better to do something that actually helps the gameplay than something that’s supposed to help the gameplay but does basically nothing.
The problem with letting FAXes and Marauders move is that they might actually benefit from it.
FAXes in that they would no longer be a, fairly large, tether point for the ships they’re supporting as well as potentially speed tanking some cap guns.
Marauders because you can actually get a Battleship moving fairly fast and that would basically break their entire trade off at the seventh vertebrae, and not in a “you’ve just made these useless” way. Of all the ships that pin themselves in place as a trade off for a mode swap Marauders are the ones who are least forced into it (no damage buff) and most stand to benefit from being able to move, and are therefore the ones who should absolutely not be able to move while in their special mode.
In fact Marauders are basically where Old’s concerns become real. You could, in fact, run a kiting Marauder setup and it would be terrifying because they actually gain projection and application.
I thought we had just established that at 25km range you aren’t speed tanking cap guns as a capital. It can’t go both ways.
And so a T2 BS would become scary, when it costs as much or even more than some capital set ups it damn well should be scary. Ok, so the ASB tank setup on them is silly, but that’s a function of the ASB being broken, not of the Marauder.
Perhaps the marauder can remain as it is, but allow it to leave bastion mode 30 seconds after initiation that way they’re not stuck in some spot for a duration = “forever” in real PvP time, even 30 seconds is a long time in PvP and quite grueling in TIDI.
Im pet
what? use a 500MWD but not a 500mn? there are no other options all 500mwd are 500mn
You’re only adding the 500MWD to add extreme mass. Add plates too.
You’re still going to use a regular 10mn AB. that will give you the closet simulation to a capital ship using 10kMN
But… the mass addition only applies when you activate the mwd
You’re correct. It’s mostly the thrust.
Mass plates and trimark then.
Apologies for the confusion, let me clarify.
You won’t completely avoid damage or anything close to that, and you certainly won’t be making HAWs a better choice against capitals, but you could reduce the incoming damage at least somewhat which for FAXes is potentially significant. On a Dread, except for the Phoenix, you reduce your outgoing DPS by about as much as you reduce incoming DPS, so there’s less of a reason to move while firing.
As for Marauders, they’re already plenty scary if used correctly. A well flown and well fitted Marauder is one of the few ships that can take something like 5:1 or 10:1 odds and have any chance of winning without hilarious incompetence on the part of the enemy. Letting them move while in Bastion would remove one of the few meaningful tradeoffs the mode has for all that it grants.
Also you don’t need an ASB to make a Marauder ridiculous, you can do quite well with a deadspace repper and a cap booster, it’s just a more expensive fit with a few fewer options in terms of fitting.
And lastly cost is not supposed to be an I-win button. Marauders are not supposed to be amazing PvP pwn-mobiles that stomp everything just because they’re expensive and require a lot of SP. We’ve been through this discussion with Carriers, Titans, Dreads, and like every six months since the Marauder rework with Marauders. CCP have answered this themselves, it’s not going to happen.
That you’re stuck for a significant period of time is, in fact, the point of Bastion and Siege. You trade vulnerability in one sense for quite a bit of strength in another. Removing those penalties would require removing quite a bit of the strength of the mode in order for it to be balanced, at which point what’s the point in having the mode at all?
What about a “no use of prop mode” limitation instead of “no movement”?
At which point we’re kinda back to “what’s the point?” territory. The only thing you could possibly outrun with that is another Battleship with no prop mod or maybe a Battlecruiser that’s smuggling 1600 plates in its lows.
The one place I can remotely see that having an impact is PvE, because you could move between gates in missions or anomalies while sieged or kite NPCs to maintain range and damage application, both buffs that aren’t really needed or warranted for the hulls or the ISK faucets in question.
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