Allow Overheat While Cloaked

game-mechanics

(Lugh Crow-Slave) #21

we don’t touch legacy code for something so minor. while it may be nice i don’t want to risk jump dives randomly failing.


(Rowells) #22

I’d argue that if there isn’t much difference between overheating before cloak or during the targeting delay, then it’s really just a simple QoL change.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #23

one is proactive the other is reactive


(Rowells) #24

How so? It seems to me that both are done before you can actually use them. And aside from a panicked target (which was happening regardless) nothing else should have changed.


(Keno Skir) #25

You are kind of correct. But consider you might want to overheat a scan res module to get faster lock times instantly on decloak. That is the reason most folks here want to overheat something while cloaked.


(Rowells) #26

Well, with the exception bombers, all the other cloaks and ships have delays upwards of 4 seconds. In essence, I’m having trouble seeing the difference between heating before a decloak and heating during that time period. Aside from needing to spam through the module you wish to heat (which is somewhat problematic in a game like eve).


(Keno Skir) #27

Stealth Bombers and Black Ops Battleships would both benefit from being able to overheat modules while cloaked since no sensor recalibration delay. If your point is that there is no reason to do it, i have mentioned 2. Specifically blops gangs would benefit from the extra execution DPS instantly. Could you explain if you can think of any reason not to allow pre-heat while cloaked?

Also gate cloaks are a thing, and loads of modules could do with pre-heating in a gate cloak scenario.


(Rowells) #28

Ah, forgot about BLOPs. Im in agreement that pre-heating during cloak would be a good change. The potential consequences are extremely slim in scope, and it would be very nice to have for a lot of situations involving cloaked gameplay.


(Keno Skir) #29

I think that sums the whole matter up rather well.

Thanks.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #30

you contradict yourself in the same statement… it cant improve situations involving cloaked game-play and have limited consequences .

one of the biggest advantages i can see this creating is to panther gate camps and hunter bombers. they can now decided target by target if they want to OH their sebo rather than having to decided in advance

not to mention the largest overall problem with this being the mechanic is currently there do to legacy code


(Rowells) #31

Those two factors (improved gameplay and improved experience) are not inherently tied together. For example, allowing mining drones to utilize the same hotkeys as regular drones didn’t give anyone an inherent advantage, but was a very welcome QoL change. Assuming there is a benefit, we can also look at examples of UX changes that had more impactful ramifications, but were still brought in since their UX value outweighed the minuscule advantage they gave (hotkeys to overheat a rack, allowing weapon groupings, etc).

That would be a perfect example a fairly niche category that is affected and only moderately so. I’m willing to go out on a limb and assume that Blops gate camps are fairly rare in the blops category, and magnitudes more rare amongst covert/cloaked ship usage.

:man_shrugging: that could be a fair point. However unless it’s been mentioned elsewhere, that’s more or less a consideration made after the idea is given credence. Could be a simple adjustment to an action restriction list, or a major underlying mechanic.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #32

the hell are you talking about? its one of the most common uses of bombers the panther was just an addition though on WHs they are not that uncommon. and it greatly effects when the majority of your targets for the bomber swing between T3C and cov-ops frigs. deciding to pre-heat before cloak or not can be the difference between a kill or no kill


(Rowells) #33

Bombers can and are used as hunters, but as I said earlier, in the overall use of them, it is a minority use at best. That aside, we’re also back to a point where those same bombers were capable of pre-hearing before cloaking. And it’s safe to assume that those who did regularly utilize a heated sebo, would likely do so anyway as a precaution.

Furthermore, we’re still talking about a single module on two classes of very specialized ships, under arguably minority use cases. This change would affect many other modules as well, likely with a few more cases that have marginal effects like the above monetioned above.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #34

it it will only have a minority effect no need to spend any dev time changing it.

it still effects every ships mods that do not require lock to use


(Rowells) #35

You’re misassociating the benefit with the consequence. They come in tandem but are not the same.

And again, I’m aware this affects all modules that can heat, but even so, is a small effect on a very specific minority of uses.

And if dev time investment is too large, oh well. If it’s a simple change, then it’s a worthy QoL change.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #36

buts not a QOL people love to use that regardless of if it applies. this doesn’t simply improve quality of life it shifts balance no matter how slightly in the favor of cloaked ships.

and all benefits of this change are a consequence of this change


(Rowells) #37

I already covered this:slight_smile: [quote=“Rowells, post:31, topic:30496”]
Those two factors (improved gameplay and improved experience) are not inherently tied together. For example, allowing mining drones to utilize the same hotkeys as regular drones didn’t give anyone an inherent advantage, but was a very welcome QoL change. Assuming there is a benefit, we can also look at examples of UX changes that had more impactful ramifications, but were still brought in since their UX value outweighed the minuscule advantage they gave (hotkeys to overheat a rack, allowing weapon groupings, etc).
[/quote]

All changes have varying degrees of balance impact. Anyone can argue down to the millisecond or the extra gram of effort that it changes.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #38

someone didn’t live or die do to the addition of the mining drone hot key


(Rowells) #39

But someone likely died from rack overheating, and someone most definitely died because of weapon grouping.

And on the flip side, there are probably even more who no longer die due to broadcast locking, and maybe even a few more won’t die once the fleet broadcast radial menu comes in.

At this point, we’re arguing whether or not a few blades of grass will suffer because the new mailbox I put up blocks the sun a bit.


(system) #40

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