Alpha changes: Best (Battle)ship for LvL4 missions


(Inir Ishtori) #1

I am looking forward to fly some LvL4 missions with my alpha character now that we will be able to board even faction battleships, but can’t decide what ship is the “best” option - one that completes missions fast and with good profit. Currently considering rail Vindicator vs AC Machariel, but I feel like I forgot what is it like to run missions in a ship other than a Marauder, as the lack of MJD on both above and sensor dampeners vs Vindi, together with shitty rail tracking throw me off a bit in the decision making.

So, what are your thoughts, guys?

EDIT:

Ships and fittings I consider:

Machariel

[Machariel, alpha]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II
Centus C-Type Armor Thermal Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Core B-Type Large Armor Repairer

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Gist X-Type 500MN Microwarpdrive
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

800mm Heavy ‘Scout’ Repeating Cannon I, EMP L
800mm Heavy ‘Scout’ Repeating Cannon I, EMP L
800mm Heavy ‘Scout’ Repeating Cannon I, EMP L
800mm Heavy ‘Scout’ Repeating Cannon I, EMP L
800mm Heavy ‘Scout’ Repeating Cannon I, EMP L
800mm Heavy ‘Scout’ Repeating Cannon I, EMP L
800mm Heavy ‘Scout’ Repeating Cannon I, EMP L
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Nanobot Accelerator I

Gecko x2
Cap Booster 800 x15

Vindicator

[Vindicator, alpha large rep rails pimp + CCC I]
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Core B-Type Large Armor Repairer
Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Gist X-Type 500MN Microwarpdrive
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L

Large Anti-Explosive Pump II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Nanobot Accelerator II

Gecko x2
Cap Booster 800 x15
Antimatter Charge L x3000

Rattlesnake

[Rattlesnake, alpha PVE rapid heavy]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier

Gist X-Type 500MN Microwarpdrive
Pithum B-Type Medium Shield Booster
Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Pithum B-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
Republic Fleet Target Painter

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x5
Gecko x1
Federation Navy Ogre x2

Gila

[Gila, alpha active 2x OTL]
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Denny Enduring Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script
Pithum B-Type Medium Shield Booster
Pithum B-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Denny Enduring Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Tracking Speed Script
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Drone Speed Augmentor II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Federation Navy Hammerhead x2
Hammerhead II x2
’Augmented’ Hammerhead x2


(Madlightning) #2

someone once told me rails on a vendi is almost always a bad idea, what about a rattle cake snake?


(Inir Ishtori) #3

Alphas won’t get access to sentries yet, therefore Rattlesnake seems like a suboptimal option at the first glance. If you have a good alpha fitting for it, please post.


(Rivr Luzade) #4

Rattle, Dominix or Armageddon, I would say: Drones, lower or no ammo consumption, variable damage types and very limited tracking issues.


(Madlightning) #5

i never used sentries on my rattlesnake for lvl 4’s on top of that faction heavy drones on a rattlesnale could work. as far as T1 ship dominix or navy scorpion.


(Muffinmixer) #6

Dominix with Navy drones would be a good option. Navy drones lack the punch of T2 drones, but get even better tracking, which imo is the really important bit for Heavy drone usability in PvE.


(Lena Crews) #7

It appears that if you get heavy drones IV… Gecko’s should be perfectly fine. Gecko also gets no bonus from the drone specializations skills… so those being capped at 2 doesn’t matter.

So a Rattlesnake with a Gecko, a flight of racial specific T2 light drones, and Meta Cruise missile launchers… sounds pretty freaking powerful for missions.


(Fluffy Moe) #8

So when exactly and precisely are these changes supposed to go live ?


(Chainsaw Plankton) #9

probably AC mach, will mainly lose some damage from the lack of t2 guns and lv4 bs skills. Lack of MJD doesn’t hurt it too much as it will still have it’s high MWD speed. And Warpspeed is one of it’s biggest advantages and that won’t change going to alpha.

vindy/nightmare seem like fine other higher dps options, but it just keeps coming down to warp speed for me. Rail vindy works it’s just a little funny to fit, although dropping to meta 4 guns should give some extra fitting room.

Waiting on heavy drones to fly around to all their targets, I just can’t see drone boats as working well. Unless you are trying to afk missions, in which case they are probably your best bet.


(Agondray) #10

id go rni, cruise missiles can have a nice tank without trying and do good dps


(Gregorius Goldstein) #11

Rattlesnake, Geckos, T2 Rapid Heavy Missiles sounds like a good Alpha combination to me.

Barghest with T2 Rapid Heavies should be a good one too?


(Muffinmixer) #12

Rattlesnake for full-clearing, definitely, and Barghest for blitzing.

Since Alphas are getting T2 small turrets/missiles, they’ll probably be able to do some of the Burners as well, so blitzing will be a good end-game career for them.


(Wolfgang Jannesen) #13

If you can’t T2 fit it, it’s not worth blowing the money on a pirate battleship for very little difference in overall effectiveness. If you can’t use sentries the Rattlesnake isn’t nearly the ship it could be, without polarized auto cannons you’ll never push the Machariel as far as it could go.

I’d stick to the Maelstron, Dominix, Typhoon, Hyperion, Apoc (maybe navy Apoc), Raven and Rokh. All of the above can be fit to safely run L4’s and turn a decent profit.

I sincerely wouldn’t blow the money on a pirate hull unless you were an omega. Waste of isk to use a ship half as well as you could.


(erg cz) #14

Dominix main benefit in L4 missioning is drone optimal range bonus. Used with sentries. Being able to shot from 100-150 km within drone optimal range, with insta damage… Since Alphas will not be able to use sentry drones, Dominix Navy Issue may be better option. Though much more expensive one.


(Lena Crews) #15

I’m confused by this. I’ve ran through many Rattlesnake fits trying to find an optimal DED site runner… and sentries were discarded as an option early.

The Gecko fitted rattlesnake outperforms any “new alpha” fitted dominix in terms of damage significantly. Consider this… the Dominix with lvl 5 skills and 4 DDA2’s using 2 geckos and 1 Ogre 2 gets 778 dps from drones… the Rattlesnake with 1 gecko and 4 DDA2’s gets 773 dps from the one gecko. That’s just drones. When you add the launchers… the rattlesnake crushes the Dominix (and I love the dominix). Keep in mind the Alpha fit would be nerfed very little for the rattlesnake… because Geckos are Geckos… it’s not a matter of T2 drones.

The rattlesnake also has an incredible tank due to the shied resist bonuses. I generally do run sentries on a dominix because the tank requires a bit of management… so it’s just easier to MJD to range and pop the sentries out. With the rattlesnake… the tank is so solid you don’t have to think even if the whole DED site aggresses you.

As far as the T2 fit… the only thing I think you’d lose T2 in would be the cruise missiles. T2 cruise missiles with inferno fury ammo and 3 BCS II get about 785 dps in a rattler. Arbelest cruises with regular inferno ammo is 505 dps. (280 DPS loss… which is a loss but not huge if you change your fitting to concentrate on drone damage instead of missiles).

Still feels like the optimal ratting ship available to alphas under the new system.


(Wolfgang Jannesen) #16

Fair enough! I’ve never used geckos and all of my ratting ships are t1 BS hulls. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to spend that much isk on ships as an alpha if you can’t use the skills to use them totally effectively. Feels like a waste of isk when T1 hulls are a third the cost and can achieve the same goals.


(erg cz) #17

Easy with geckos and paper dps they offer. They do omni damage. Which means half you damage will go against highest NPC resists. In the case of drone agro, your lone webified gecko will not make it back to drone bay. If you lose one navy ogre - no big los. Gecko = 80+ milions, now. Imagine price after the patch.


(Lena Crews) #18

Well, Alphas won’t be optimal… by design.

I think with the gecko rattlesnake they’d be LESS sub-optimal than with any other PVE mission/ratting battleship available. The Gecko is effectively a T2 super-heavy drone that will be available to Alphas despite not being able to use T2 battleship weapons/drones.


(Chainsaw Plankton) #19

Pirate BS offer such massive bonuses they are especially worth using with lower skills. The main issue with lower skills is usually lower experience and that can lead to silly ship losses, and that is why I wouldn’t recommend new players rush into pirate BS, but eventually working their way up they will find a big upgrade in pirate BS.

Nightmare is such a massive improvement over amarr t1 bs it’s not even close, full damage bonus off the role bonus, and the AB + tracking bonuses on the BS skills are just nice extras. not to mention the massive amount of extra fitting. Oh yea and a built in cap bonus from only using 4 guns.

Mach gets warp speed and damage on the role bonus, with falloff and damage from the two BS skills, again a huge improvement over the t1 options. And again a ton CPU/PG to fit pretty much everything you want. And I doubt many that use it even use polarized ACs, I know I don’t the warp speed is the main reason I use it. Will have to see what burners alphas can run, it probably will still make sense as the go to blitz ship to complement burners.

Vindi will still do more rail damage than any of the t1 options, but is kinda awkward as a mission ship. imo it’s just outclassed by the mach in general.

Rattlesnake will be in an interesting position. I think it’s use will be more situational without sentry drones, but the gecko is a very strong option. and it will still do decent missile damage.

On the missile side sure there aren’t great upgrades from the raven line, barghest maybe but I’m not a big fan of missiles in general.


(Arthur Aihaken) #20

RHML Rattlesnake with a Gecko is my vote - mainly because I don’t think a lot of Alphas will know how to utilize the AC Machariel to its fullest potential.