So to try and cut a long-ish story shorter I started playing EVE AGES ago & I’ve been and off over the years. I’m wanting to get back into EVE but don’t have the time to do the ‘really serious’ stuff like nullsec or even Abyss I think. Instead i’m just looking for something that will allow me to do those basic lvl 4 missions for some fun in my spare time.
At the moment I am flying the Orthrus, runs at around 320DPS and 31.2k EHP (not really got any skills maxed out yet though as well) and while I figure out what to do I am training up generic missile/navigation/drone skills that will be useful for any missile-based ship.
Last time I logged into the game someone I was chatting to was talking about how the Tengu would be more than enough, being able to produce up to 800 sustained DPS at ranges exceeding 100km and with more than enough EHP to withstand what was thrown at me. Is this still the case or have things changed?
A lot of what I’ve read over the past few days talks, instead, about the Rattlesnake being one of your ideal highsec mission runner… is the Tengu no longer really a suitable ship for the task? (in terms of training time it would take no longer for me to use one over the other). Furthermore, out of curiosity, why not the Barghest?
I ask only because it seems to also be a missile dominated ship and yet I’ve yet to see its name mentioned as a contender despite having more high slots, a much faster speed (over 50 m/s according to the comparator tool) and seemingly similar in all other stats (a slightly weaker base shield strength I believe).
Final random query (for now)… looking at the drones. I get that as the drone gets larger it takes up more space & bandwidth and that damage output increases at the cost of worse tracking & speed. So would it not be advisable to carry smaller drones rather than larger ones when you’re flying a larger ship? (I mean if drones AREN’T your primary source of damage)
The logic in my mind being that a larger ship struggles to deal with frigates/destroyers due to tracking… so wouldn’t you want small/med drones to deal with them while your main weapon system deals with the larger enemy ships?
so, in your opinion, is there a ship that is, generically, ‘good’ for your lv 4s? Is something like the Rattlesnake/barghest/tengu overkill and would it therefore be more practicable to go for e.g. the Raven? Or would going for the Raven be a bit like choosing a Peurgeot 207 over a Ferrari… it will also get you there but in twice the time
For most people, ISK/hr is the metric they model their mission running ships after. Missions do get very very boring after a short while after all. So you want to get them done in as little time as possible.
On the other hand, really optimized fits are expensive and will paint a big target marker on your back. Fly a blingy mission running ship in the vicinity of a mission hub and you will soon learn there are sharks in the water.
There are cheaper options of course that can get the job done as well. But they will take longer, they fly and warp slower and often have less dps. So, as the clearing times rise, your income per time will sink.
If you want to fly cheap and save money for consumables (ammo, nanite repair paste, cap boosters), there are some decent Dominix fits that can facetank and run any level 4 mission while still being cheap enough so that you are not a prime target for mission runner gankers.
That stuffs not that serious. You can be a carebear in nullsec and it can be pretty casual/relaxing. And the abyss has low tiers that are easy and comfy and still pay pretty well, so I wouldn’t rule out these options.
While the Tengu is fine for level 4s it’s not the best. Go for the Tengu if you think you might want to use it for other uses, ie ded-sites, wormholing, lvl 5s, hunting players. It’s still a fine ship but if you want to maximize your efficiency for level 4s, you’d be better off with a snake or barghest.
the Rattlesnake is a ridiculously OP ship. I use it for certain level 5s and It’s the only battleship I’ve found that can solo the missions I use it for. Fit for level 4s it can do 1400 dps pretty easily with rapid heavies and tanks like a boss.
The Barghest is also fantastic for blitzing level 4s. It’s a different playstyle. You typically fit cruise missiles and MJD and use it as more of a sniper ship.
Yes, always, however on the rattlesnake, usually your rapid heavy missiles make short work of frigates. I find myself hardly using light scout drones on that ship. Even in the Barghest you wont have to use light drones too often. This is one of the benefits of missiles, they don’t ever fully miss, they just do less damage to smaller targets. Also you can carry precision/faction ammo for better application to small ships.
To add: If you’re interested in doing full-clears (I wouldn’t recommend it) go for a Golem instead.
Well i dont really want to do any pvp because it just feels mean if you win… (i know you shouldnt fly what you cant afford to lose etc but thats my line and i am sticking to it)
Out of curiosity what sort of fitting do you utilise for those lvl4 clears on a rattkesnake?
As another query. What level of mastery would you say you need in a ship before you can consider flying it as a general rule? Im about 55 days off level 3 for the rattlesnake, (actually already meet the bare bones requirement to fly it but i wouldnt dare touch it yet)
I don’t have a fit for you unfortunately. I use a Machariel personally. But the fitting philosophy is the same. DPS and mobility are your primary tools. Your tank doesn’t have to be too crazy but you might want to overtank at the start so that you can learn the missions safely. Slowly remove tank and add gank as needed.
Get Gallente and Caldari battleship to IV before you fly a snake. Make sure you can use the ‘Arbalest’ rapid heavies, and you have decent tank/drone skills. Splash some isk on your drones because they get a 500% increase to hit points so they don’t die usually. Faction drones have better tracking and tank, definitely worth it if you cant use t2
Decide then if you want to be cap stable and use a deadspace large shield booster, or if you would rather have an x-large booster and pulse it.
Try to get to the point where your low slots are all damage modules. Your goal is 1400 dps. You’ll be good to go when you can break 1000. You’re going to run into CPU issues first and foremost. CPU skills will help with that. A CPU implant or Genolution set might be good to have as a newer player.
Well cheers for the advice about fitting. I may have to go hunting for a fit ti work towards.
Pity about the mastery… do you knpw of any sort of site that gives an advised skill list for different ships? Furthermore is skill lvl IV+ a definite minimum or for 'just starting’can lvl III be acceptable in some?
actually many skills can be “bypassed” by blinging the fit.
eg if you don’t have weapon upgrade V, using faction BCU can alleviate the CPU need.
Same for shield boosters : a gist C XL will require a bit less CPU and power, and will heal more for the cap, than a T2.
Here is a cheap (kinetic/thermal) fit I threw together:
Cheapo Snake
[Rattlesnake, lvl 4]
Co-Processor II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
500MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
X-Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pith X-Type Thermal Dissipation Field
Pith X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Large Cap Battery II
Large Cap Battery II
‘Arbalest’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
‘Arbalest’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
‘Arbalest’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
‘Arbalest’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
‘Arbalest’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Federation Navy Ogre x2
Republic Fleet Berserker x2
There are a million ways to fit this ship. The only thing I would adamantly recommend on the Rattlesnake in particular is that you splash some isk on the drones. You only have bandwidth for 2 drones so the investment is small and they’re easy to keep track of in the fray, and they get a massive buff from the hull so as long as you don’t forget to pull them in before warping off, there’s almost no chance you’ll lose them in battle. Faction is good if you’re poor. Augmented is better.
Edit: Also, level IV battleship skills are not required, you can get away with IIIs. But IV should be top priority once you’re happy with your other skills.
Well thank you for the reems of information. I’ve saved that build to the Pyfa as cheapsnake just for the fun of it (hell might even name the ship after it!) to save for future use! What I might do is buy the ship sooner than later and slowly fit it up as time goes on until it reaches a ‘respectable’ level… maybe take it on some lvl 3’s once I have lvl III+ skills (working on… advanced drone avionics I think) to test the water.
Tengu is fine, but well that’s about it just fine. 800 dps is nothing special. In general there are better options out there.
Rattlesnake, can do some crazy dps with strong missiles and drones, and it can also fit a beefy shield tank. The biggest downside to the rattlesnake is that it requires micromanagement to keep that DPS up, and it’s a freaking slow ass brick.
Barghest is nice, it’s pretty quick, gets good missile damage, and has that sweet missile velocity bonus. The ship seems pretty underrated, but also the slot layout isn’t the greatest. I played around with it some but never fully min/maxed it. Can do well with cruise or RHML depending on circumstances. I think it just doesn’t get talked about much because it’s a bit more expensive than most other faction BS and it’s missiles, I think most people have moved to the machariel for blitzing, or the rattlesnake for max dps.
As for drones well it depends on how much drone bay and bandwidth you have. personally I usually carry lights and sentries, one flight of lights then fill up the rest of the bay with sentries for the instant damage at range. On a few ships I just have multiple flights of lights. The lights are great as they can apply to the elite frigs and you can usually call them back before they explode. Also they don’t take much aggro. Meds got buffed so they might be better in some cases, but they will also take more aggro than lights. I pretty much only use mediums on a gila. That said on a drone bonused hull even heavy drones can wreck most NPC frigs. The NPC frigs usually move at about the same speed as the heavies so they just sit behind it and get great tracking.
overkill is good, the faster you kill things the faster you can move on to the next mission and make more money. Raven should do all the missions alright, but the barghest will probably do them all even faster.
exactly, it’s a good guideline but you don’t usually need it all.
Well cheers fornthat advice on the cheapo snake. Turned out i wasnt that far off in skills for buying and fitting it (sitting on 850dps with basic inferno missiles and dronea, around 60k ehp i think, but capacitor runs dry in about 2.5 mins with everythibg running)
The only issue is that there are no pith thermal dissipation fields or those memory cells in my region. Managed to get a T2 version instead (not as good in performance i know but better than nothing).
Is there anything you would recommend instead of the memory cells or is it worth keepung the slots open until i can find some?
I don’t know how current they are, but the UniWiki (EVE University’s site) ship pages have recommendations for what you should have before undocking, often with reasons given for why. They also list what you need as a minimum.
Cheers for that site, I think the planning I have in my queue at the moment (currently sitting around 77 days I think) is that I’ve put all the non-specific missile related skills I can find in there up to V, as well as generic shield improving skills (e.g. improving thermal resistance) up to lvl IV for now.
As a random query. In the ‘cheepo’ rattlesnake build posted above I noticed the boosters to shield resistance were thermal and kinetic. When I was looking at the rattlesnake itself the lowest ‘base’ resistance was for EM. So why not boost that? is it just that very few RATS use em-based weapondry? or is it less effective?
