An interesting idea of ending Minmatar-Amarr conflict

[Arrendis]

@Ascentior

Refusing to accept the Word of God as evidence

Before we can accept the Word of God as evidence, it has to be authenticated. Can you provide an unbiased source that demonstrates that the Amarr Scriptures are what you claim they are?

[Tannia_Ambrye]

Thanks for explaining it to him. I’m currently out of patience with this bunch.

[Kumakatok]

@Veikitamo_Gesakaarin

Well, no. It is the Amarr themselves who take actions against someone like Nauplius on the casus belli that he is abusing his slaves. This implies that they have some form of legal rights and that abusing slaves in the Empire is illegal on some basis.

However, as you have said, the slaves someone like Nauplius legally purchases are his property, so as far as the Empire should be concerned whatever he does to them is not illegal, because after all a slave cannot give or deny consent to being abused, raped, tortured or murdered because they are property for an owner to do as they will.

As such, why create a narrative against him that emphasizes his abuses, when such abuses are not abuses, because they were not committed against human beings but property?

I had no idea who this “Nauplius” was, so used the search functions of GalNet to discover your reference. I’m not sure the discovery was entirely edifying.

As far as I can tell, the Empire has no stance on him at all, let alone a declared casus belli. I do read that there are many capsuleer pilots of loyal corporations that consider his behaviour worthy of special challenge, but without succeeding in doing much more than delaying his excesses. One might fight passionately to return a stolen painting or to protect an ancient temple site. Neither the painting nor the temple acquire rights because someone fought for them.

I am forced to conclude that your example is irrelevant to the Imperial view of slaves as property as the actors you cite are not legal authorities for the Empire.

I might venture an opinion that this Nauplius appears to be a heretic (if we assume his allegiance to a ‘Red God’ has been deemed so by an appropriate authority). In which case, he cannot be a Holder, and thus may not possess slaves. This, along with a laudable desire to give these unfortunates a longer life in which to move closer to Reclamation and the mercy of God, may well motivate the Amarr pilots who seek to destroy him.

So the narrative you speak of is not that of the Empire.

[Veikitamo_Gesakaarin]

@Kumakatok

I might venture an opinion that this Nauplius appears to be a heretic (if we assume his allegiance to a ‘Red God’ has been deemed so by an appropriate authority). In which case, he cannot be a Holder, and thus may not possess slaves. This, along with a laudable desire to give these unfortunates a longer life in which to move closer to Reclamation and the mercy of God, may well motivate the Amarr pilots who seek to destroy him.

Nauplius has not been declared a heretic by any Imperial authority.

As such, much like many other capsuleers who claim to be Holders, he should also be considered to be a Holder. Indeed, records show he has loyally served the 24th Imperial Crusade and aided in the Reclaiming.

Then according to you, it should be considered that organizations such as PIE and SFRIM who have acted against him have:

a) Destroyed the property of an Imperial Holder who has broken no laws and not denounced as a heretic.

b) That the rationale for their doing so, centered on his murder of slaves has no basis in the law, because after all he is a lawful Holder treating his property (slaves) as he wishes.

One can only surmise that indeed, PIE and SFRIM are as wicked and as vile as Nauplius claims for their infringement upon his rights as a Holder.

The claim of moral outrage to destroy his property (as those organizations have done) then seems to hold little validity, because according to you the killing of a million slaves as he has done should cause no such outrage because it should be considered as fundamentally no different to if he were to say, smash a million chairs he might own instead.

[Diana_Kim]

@Arrendis

And all of your reasons come down to seeing what the Amarr decide to let you see. Have you actually investigated the ‘claims’ you dismiss? Have you, for example, worked for the Republic to get an idea of how much slave-raiding the Imperial Navy is really doing? Or are you just trusting them not to lie to you?

You wouldn’t trust the Fed to not be lying about what their Navy and the Black Eagles are doing, would you?

Imperials are honorable, unlike Feds and Republicians. Knowing minmatars I’d assume they would just try to stage some sort of spectacle and make up facts to convince me.
And working for the enemy is not negotiable.

@Arrendis

This is the entire purpose of all of the slaves in the Empire: forceful indoctrination and reclamation.

Because they have violated Imperial law on Imperial territory.

D. Kim, Strike Commander,
State Protectorate, CMC,
Caldari State

[Arrendis]

@Diana_Kim

Because they have violated Imperial law on Imperial territory.

Care to explain what law newborn infants violated?

[Valerie_Valate]

@Arrendis

Care to explain what law newborn infants violated?

Being Minmatar without a permit.

[Charles_Cambridge_Schmidt]

@Veikitamo_Gesakaarin

As such, much like many other capsuleers who claim to be Holders, he should also be considered to be a Holder.

Diana Kim claims to be a State Naval Officer. Do you see where I’m going with this?

[Valerie_Valate]

@Charles_Cambridge_Schmidt

Do you see where I’m going with this?

The Crystal Boulevard?
Dam-TorsadDam-Torsad?
Jita?
Through the EVE Gate?

[Kumakatok]

@Veikitamo_Gesakaarin

Nauplius has not been declared a heretic by any Imperial authority.

As such, much like many other capsuleers who claim to be Holders, he should also be considered to be a Holder. Indeed, records show he has loyally served the 24th Imperial Crusade and aided in the Reclaiming.

Then according to you, it should be considered that organizations such as PIE and SFRIM who have acted against him have:

a) Destroyed the property of an Imperial Holder who has broken no laws and not denounced as a heretic.

b) That the rationale for their doing so, centered on his murder of slaves has no basis in the law, because after all he is a lawful Holder treating his property (slaves) as he wishes.

One can only surmise that indeed, PIE and SFRIM are as wicked and as vile as Nauplius claims for their infringement upon his rights as a Holder.

The claim of moral outrage to destroy his property (as those organizations have done) then seems to hold little validity, because according to you the killing of a million slaves as he has done should cause no such outrage because it should be considered as fundamentally no different to if he were to say, smash a million chairs he might own instead.

That’s quite a remarkable extrapolation of my offered opinion. I can see now that your reputation as a provocateur is well founded.

Since such wilful mis-representation allows for no shared reference point for discussion to continue in any meaningful manner, I bid you good day.

[Veikitamo_Gesakaarin]

@Kumakatok

That’s quite a remarkable extrapolation of my offered opinion. I can see now that your reputation as a provocateur is well founded.

Since such wilful mis-representation allows for no shared reference point for discussion to continue in any meaningful manner, I bid you good day.

You’re the one who stated that Imperial slaves should be treated as property, yet here you are completely unable to say what laws an Amarrian Holder such as Nauplius has broken by in fact treating the slaves he purchases legally from Amarrian institutions on the SCC markets as property he owns and does as he sees fit with them – stuffing them full of vitoc, herding them into a freighter like a cattle, and killing them en masse.

Oh, I’m sorry, killing would imply they’re human beings who can or cannot consent to being killed, right? Feel free to use some other Amarrian euphemism for it before you go back to whatever Imperial echo chamber you came from to suck on your thumb so you don’t have to mewl in encountering a contrary opinion in public.

[Halcyon_Ember]

I have perfectly good reasons to not be there. I’m sure your rallying cry of “changing it from within” helps you sleep at night. It’s most likely all it achieves. I’d rather reject the culture of abuse and the abusers it produces than immerse myself within it. Perhaps if more did the same there’d be more room to manoeuvre, rather than allowing themselves to be part of the system and telling themselves they’re making it better.
Slavery is wrong, Aldrith. Telling people it isn’t and that you want to improve it and that really it helped your people so much doesn’t change that.

[Diana_Kim]

I will appreciate if known trolls will stop using threads to claim I claimed something I never claimed.
I also would like to urge honest readers to take my opinions only from my own words, and not from dubious sources, especially if they are known to openly twist my ideas and words.

Thanks in advance,
D. Kim, Strike Cmdr.,
State Protectorate, CMC,
Caldari State

[Diana_Kim]

@Halcyon_Ember

Slavery is wrong, Aldrith.

Also, it is most definitely not, but your bullying is.

[Halcyon_Ember]

@Diana_Kim

Also, it is most definitely not,

Diana Kim, Caldari Advocate for Slavery

[Diana_Kim]

@Halcyon_Ember

Diana Kim, Caldari Advocate for Slavery

Your trolling is wrong either.

[Halcyon_Ember]

I’m making a declarative statement based on the ideals you have advocated. I wouldn’t consider someone saying “Halcyon likes chocolate” as trolling.

[Lasairiona_Raske]

@Halcyon_Ember

I’m making a declarative statement based on the ideals you have advocated. I wouldn’t consider someone saying “Halcyon likes chocolate” as trolling.

What if I said, “Halcy doesn’t like chocolate”?

Lasairiona Raske
“Red”
Salvation Angel
ARC Diplomat
Owner of L’Amore in Ballo
Dav’s squeeze

[Davlos]

I approve of my squeeze being my squeeze.

[Halcyon_Ember]

That would be trolling a non Amarrian non officer