And by give us a baseline, Makoto, I mean ‘demonstrating effectiveness’ is completely subjective. You need criteria upon which to judge effectiveness.
So: the first example of this non-aggressive behavior took place at the CONCORD time measurement experiments. As Aradina can verify, I was on-site in a combat vessel, and spent quite some time peacefully co-existing with the 2 Drifters, in close proximity. If you’re not going to give a baseline criterion to compare against, then I’m free to say ‘Look, my strategy was 100% effective in convincing them to not drop a fleet on Goonswarm’ or ‘my strategy was 100% effective in not provoking an extinction-level purge of all mankind’.
But both of those statements would be as ridiculous as your demand of ‘demonstrate the effectiveness’ without saying what you want the strategy to be effective at doing. So how about you actually put up the science, or shut up and go back to salting your popcorn?
If people have such a serious problem with the way ARC works, then surely the obvious way to get them to change their methodology is to provide convincing evidence or proof that something else works.
ARC are clearly happy with the way they’re doing things, so unless someone can show them that the Drifter fleets can be discounted as a threat to otherwise peaceful capsuleers¹ in another fashion, there’s really no reason why they should change.
ARC are no more beholden to you in their operations than you are to them.
¹Carrying a corpse or fitting an entosis link is not an appropriate reason for a ship to be destroyed, nor should capsuleers avoid doing those things simply because the Drifters don’t like it.
Again: works to do what, specifically? If ARC’s goals are scientific, then let’s see what they’ve collected in these last two engagements so that the other strategy’s effectiveness can be evaluated. If the body count of Drifter battleships is their goal, then let’s have them at least say that so we don’t have people trying to collect scientific data only to be told ‘but that didn’t kill them’.
Why not? Capsuleers are expected to not kill one another in Highsec without a war dec simply because CONCORD doesn’t like it. We’re expected not to attack Navy ships just because the Navies don’t like it. Face it: the rules under which we live provide a clear deterrent of ‘if you do X, you’ll get blown up by these guys because they can’.
I think the issue, Arrendis, is that you’ve yourself stated that your only objective on these forums is entertainment through argument. Nothing we can say will convince you, because you don’t actually care. You’re here for sport.
Warped next to a Gurista Forward Operating Base the other day. Was the strangest thing - none of them actually attacked me. Even though my attempts to contact Fatal and The Rabbit were unsuccessful, I remain convinced that they are capable of diplomacy. Moreover, I am certain that these “pirates” are wholly peaceful based on my experience at the FoB; they simply did not engage despite me being well within weapons range.
The fact that I was cloaked had nothing to do with it, I assure you.
Re-read the rest of my post. You even quoted some of the pertinent information.
Edit:
Anyway, such a blatantly deliberate ignoring of my main point just goes to show that talking with you is a waste of time. I won’t be doing it any further.
No, I wasn’t ignoring your point. I read your post as weighing in on the question I posed to Makoto. Was I wrong about that? I apologize for misreading then. If you were raising the suggestion completely independent of Makoto’s much more vague demand, then you have my sincere apologies for my error.
At the same time, your demand only highlights my issues with Makoto’s. You provide a criterion: demonstrating that the Drifter fleets can be discounted as a threat to otherwise peaceful capsuleers. That’s a perfectly reasonable criterion, and it’s one where the effectiveness can be actually judged in a quantifiable, objective way.
But ARC doesn’t claim to be ‘defending peaceful capsuleers’. You have a set of criteria against which effectiveness can be measured. Makoto, the other person demanding the demonstration of effectiveness, on the other hand, refuses to provide one.
So let’s say I go out there and keep the Drifters from destroying anyone. The result? ‘Your strategy wasn’t effective because it didn’t produce any scientific data’. If I go out there and collect data, ‘your strategy wasn’t effective because it didn’t kill Drifters’.
Think she won’t? Then why won’t she provide the standard the strategy is to be evaluated by?
Edit: And if you were weighing in on the question posed to Makoto… then your criteria are irrelevant to the question, because you don’t run ARC. Sorry.
I can confirm that Arrendis was present with the two Drifters in Luminaire, and in fact offered her help in killing them despite their not having attacked anyone.
Ancestor’s choke - are we still debating if these mutants are worthy of being treated with peace? Do the freaks even understand the concept?
I suggest we move on to a more productive subject. For this debate of cuddling these mutants instead of putting them out of their misery is frankly going in circles.
@Makoto_Priano - I don’t recall if you ever saw me make this comment, but it was in ARC’s public router channel. But I wanted to know if ARC managed to uncover any salvage from any of these fleets that got booted out of the realm of the living.
Not just the sleeper libraries either, I’m talking hull platings and internal components. I know I saw a Noctis on grid digging though the wrecks.
What I want to know is if ARC managed somehow to obtain a piece of a vessel’s hull that has the original damage on it. I understand we’ve most likely ruined all the samples…But something must’ve got blown clear.
If the answer is Yes, then the obvious answer would be to study it, No? What kind of weaponry inflicted that much damage to it. Give us a better picture of who was taking shots at these bastards before we showed up.
I was piloting the Noctis, and I can say that the only thing that meets the criteria you’re referencing came from capsuleer ships. Nothing of measurable value - scientific or otherwise - came from the Drifter wrecks. Edit: Since this is probably necessary in retrospect, given the hounding that will ensue if I don’t make note of it: When I say ‘measurable value - scientific or otherwise’, I am referencing evidence of what caused the damage to the Drifter ships. Not that there was no value in destroying them to begin with.
Which… perhaps we should start building ships out of Antikythera Elements and Sleeper Databases…
Called what? That I’m curious about your narrowed claim? Gosh, I’ve asked what science has come of these engagements. Now you mention that the lack of scientific value was specifically regarding the source of damage, and I express curiosity. GOOD JOB!
For your next psychic trick, will you predict ice is cold? Water wet? Fedos stink, maybe?
Calm down goon. We gotta stay focused on figuring out how to destroy these freaks.
@Nomistrav perhaps this does call for a bit more observation. If we come across another fleet of Drifters with similar damage we should examine them as they are…See if we can get some idea of what kind of damage that is they be received.
A warrior doesn’t come back from battle without an explanation for his wounds. Despite how in-human these Drifters are. I think that saying applies. But once we get the info we need? Load em up and take them down before they stick their noses in someone else’s cargo hold.
How about me? I came here to either change minds or have my mind change and I still agree with arrendis. None of my questions on the drifter subject have gotten satisfactory answers. I am open to changing my mind, that’s the logical thing to do.
You are killing drifters simply for being drifters regardless of what they are currently doing. If the amarr began killing the minmatar everywhere without mercy, regardless of if they are attacking or shooting back, that would also be considered genocide. Am I mistaken?