Shades of Kim, girl. Dismissing someone as a ‘troll’ simply because you don’t have an answer to pretty straight-forwards questions?
What’s next, signing the posts?
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That sounds like a plausible horror series.
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Oh snap! Comparing Miss Makoto with Miss Kim? Those are fighting words right there.
But yeah, Miss Arrendis is a big meanie.
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I think ARC has been pretty straight foward and honest about their answers.
We have many occurances where the Driffters had attacked civilized societies and many opportunities missed for them to open dialogue with us.
Now for my veiws…it’s clear they don’t see us as equals and as such I will not see these mutants as equals. They’re nothing but spiritless beings hiding in the skin of a human being that had been mutiliated with augmentations. They’re no diffent than those Rogue Drone abominations with their false sentience.
These Drifters are free to live - Just not in our space. They can return to their shithole wormholes and stay there for all I care. These stars and planets belong to humanity, not these creatures.
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I patiently await your reply
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Somehow I’m not surprised that almost nobody seemed to have read what I wrote and decided to just ignore actual, verifiable statistics over to appealing to emotion, which seems to be a common theme among those who maintain Drifters are “abominations” and to “be dealt with wherever they appear.”
For the life of me I can’t find any sources that Drifters have ever attacked civilian infrastructure without reason , only military convoys, leaders or installations. You’d think Scope or even ACN would have articles if this has happened, but I can’t find anything. And it has been established that Amarr did lead sizable expeditions to Anoikis, giving probable cause as to why they were attacked.
Furthermore, claiming that this recent Drifter behaviour is a worrying buildup to attack just does not hold water - what kind of entity plans to fight a war with already broken weapons? Also, when the Drifters assaulted the Amarr, they did so without warning and certainly not with pre-broken ships. Again, I have to concur with Mizhara - if this is a prelude to invasion, it’s a pissporr attempt, unless they’re really crafty and trying to lull is in to a false sense of security.
It is, because I think people are pulling pretty strange conclusions, see above.
Yes, exactly. Doesn’t seem like anyone’s actually doing that.
Assuming you’re a capsuleer as only capsuleers should have access to these channels, you yourself are an abomination mutilated with augmentations to most baseliners. Pot, don’t call a kettle black.
If I’m actually talking to scientists here, I’d hope you’d look in to actual, verifiable facts and statistics - however few and far between they are - and not letting your personal grudges or grievances dictate your responses.
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I, for One, am Surprised by the Attitudes displayed by Mr. Avio Yaken.
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Any doubt in my mind that the Drifters have already indoctrinated Capsuleer society steadily dissipates with each fool that rises to defend them.
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This singular implant doesn’t change anything. It simply enables me to achieve new heights. But my flesh, organs, bones and very spirit are natural. My genetics unaltered. I still have my personality, ambition, emotion and indivuality that makes me human.
You cannot look at these quickly pailed machines in human skin and convince me that we are one of the same.
We’re are nothing alike.
Also, I’ve never claimed to be a scientist. I know where my skills are and that is on the battlefield and not a lab.
However for verifiable facts we have all of the Ammarian Empire to look at. Head of state killed, Navy HQ attacked, constellations wide incursions in the Khanid Region.
But they’re just peaceful scouts just looking to scan our star gates, right? No…
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Looks like someone didn’t read the fine print. Let’s see.
No.
No. (Besides possibly your spirit)
I’ll give you that one.
At least you have that, and a wonderful one at that.
We don’t know enough about the Drifters to say whether they do or do not have any of those.
I didn’t say we are one and the same, after all, pot and the kettle are not the same appliance. Earlier I did say that Drifters bodies seem like infomorph bodies taken to the extreme, so we could be them, one day.
Well maybe I didn’t attribute that part of my message to you then.
Who, in turn, possibly aggressed them in Anoikis. We do not know what they did there, but they did lose several ships. I’m merely asserting the hypothesis, that maybe the invasion to Amarr was a response to something they did. I’m not saying my hypothesis is fact.
I have not once claimed that, so stop saying that I did.
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Yes.
While this body have was not given to me at birth. Every part that makes up my body is that of a normal being. Everything is simply “fresh”
Thank you.
While I can’t tell in a text based forum message. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that was sincere. Thank you.
Thank you for the clarification.
But if this is the future for us? Then I do not look forward to it. Absolutely disturbing.
So, attacking the Empire is justified and we just ignore them as a threat. After all that damage they did to one of the largest powers in the cluster we should just shrug it off as retribution.
If anything - The Drifters have proved they’re capable of putting up a fight. As a warrior I fight, so let’s get a taste of what these freaks can do.
Very Well, I apologize for that.
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Because i hate this comm software & are still coming to terms of it, have a completely hacked up post.
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For the life of me I can’t find any sources that Drifters have ever attacked civilian infrastructure without reason , only military convoys, leaders or installations. You’d think Scope or even ACN would have articles if this has happened, but I can’t find anything. And it has been established that Amarr did lead sizable expeditions to Anoikis, giving probable cause as to why they were attacked.
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It’s nice to see how quickly people forget the Drifter attacks in Amarr space, dubbed ‘incursions’ They weren’t solely focused on military infrastructure, or did capsuleers conveniently forgot how small fleets of Drifter ships camped gates, shooting passing ships, irrelevant of their profession or origin. Luckily the Amarr Navy usually intervened back then, keeping casualties low.
Or later on, with the second Drifter attack on known space; attacking the science infrastructure of the alpha clones. But I guess that was just an inconvenience. In Amarr, Caldari, Minmatar & Gallente space no less.
[quote]
Furthermore, claiming that this recent Drifter behaviour is a worrying buildup to attack just does not hold water - what kind of entity plans to fight a war with already broken weapons? Also, when the Drifters assaulted the Amarr, they did so without warning and certainly not with pre-broken ships. Again, I have to concur with Mizhara - if this is a prelude to invasion, it’s a pissporr attempt, unless they’re really crafty and trying to lull is in to a false sense of security.
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I fully agree with you there, but you fail to see the notion that prior to this, the only experience we had with drifter fleets was: Drifter fleets attack X
Then nobody should be surprised that when you show up a third time with a formation that lead to attacks
But your stance sounds like this I know they attacked us twice when they formed fleets, but maybe this third time is different!
And while it turned out to be, they still failed to communicate with us, while they are able to. They can communicate with us, they just choose not to. We can’t communicate with them (and if we can communicate with them, they got one hell of a crack team of professional ignorers on their comms)
But you know, after 2 (!) engagements, we now know they act different & are not a direct threat, but according to many folks here, we should been future-predicting psychics, able to foretell that the third time Drifter fleets enter known space, they wouldn’t be outright hostile.
They still killed traders tho, but they were fools I guess for not complying to Drifter Law in Caldari space (Sirppala encounter). Good to know.
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It is, because I think people are pulling pretty strange conclusions, see above
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I don’t know. Twice Drifter fleets are sighted previously, both ended with destruction on our side. Why is it so odd to prevent it happening a third time?
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Yes, exactly. Doesn’t seem like anyone’s actually doing that.
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Not the fault of ARC, they only got two proper engagements to work on (the Anoikis encounrer where Drifters did act hostile is normal after all, it was near their complex). The Nullsec one would have ended in rapid destruction anyway, that’s how nullsec works. If people doubt this, they are free to travel to nullsec unanounced in a region not under cotnrol of them or their allies.
The Rens & Sirppala encounters were the only two that could be analyzed in more detail & because of the repeat nature of both events, ARC now knows something is off beyond damaged Drifters (who were sitll capable of initial fierce resistance, which can throw off analysis if you only got one encounter to analyze)
The thing is: Now we know something is definitely off & less aggressive methods can be used to analyze their fleets. Prior to this? No. Unless you wanted to risk lives by taking the stand Do not shoot Drifters unless their fleets start attacking And a fleet of 50 Drifters that would have gone on the offensive after gathering up their forces would been hell to deal with.
Do note, they didn’t arrive with 50 in Sirppala; they arrived with 20-25 first, then more warped in to 30-40, and more joined, growing to a 51 strong fleet.
But according to some folks here, a mysterious force that has been known to attack each time before when they formed fleets should not be disturbed & their fleets be left alone, until maybe they had too many to counter.
While yes, this time it looks different & we should look into the why, it is naieve & overly optimistic to think a fleet that is growing in strength, no matter the damaged state of their ships is a growing case of concern.
If we could have communicated with them, we could at least asked them for the reasons why, or at least asked them to leave without resorting to aggression, but alas, we cannot.
And to the 'nobody seems to be thing that? bit: because ARC didn’t had the time yet, they only got two encounetrs to go off. But it seems science method has to be ignored when reading all this by various capsuleers.
Science is building on what we know & learning from there. We know Drifters attack when they formed fleets, they did this twice, each with destructive results. Science method dictates that they are likely to do this again when they show up, so countermeasures, in the form of wiping the fleet before they become a threat aren’t that far fetched.
So in the two encounters ARC had a direct hand, this is what they did, destroy the fleets before they could become a threat. And while yes they were heavily damaged, their doomsday weapons were still fully functional & any entity that can field such powerful weapon is a trheat, irrelevant of their damaged state.
However, after these two encounters (Rens & Sirppala) we can once again work the scientific method (repeat, check & see if it is not a fluke) & come to the conclusion that indeed this third Drifter fleet appearances are indeed vastly different then before.
Now we got an anomalous behaviour that was not witnessed before (but they still shoot & destroy unarmed passerby’s that have the audacity to not comply to Drifter Law )
So now it’s time to let science do its thing again & find ways to deal with this anomalous Drifter behaviour, without jeopardizing non-involved lives too much.
But if Drifters shoot ships unprovoked in our space (This is a thing, several ships got destroyed at Sirppala, without provoking them, their fault? Hauling of capsuleer corpses & capsuleer space funerals should be illegal then). Why should this be allowed? What weights more, the Drifters or your own people.
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You… Do know where capsuleer biomass comes from? Grade A+ biomass, a.k.a. “Certified human cadavers”. Which are used to construct a clone body as a template ready for injection of your genetic information and brain scan. I believe the brochure said something about “organic soups” as well. They’re definetly “fresh”, emphasis on the quotation marks. Your facial bones specifically are sophisticated synthetic bone polymers hardened with radiation once formed to your preferred template.
To be honest it was more of an annoyed jab, but I don’t really know you that well so maybe you’re not as bad of a guy as I first thought, judging by your further responses.
I suppose this is something interesting that would bear further study of the human mind and its readiness to accept something as a new normal. None of us were born as capsuleers, by its very necessity, bone growth has to have stopped, so every capsuleer has had to be at the very least 18-20 years old and have lived for that time as a baseliner. That so many capsuleers seem to have simply forgotten how disturbing the idea of becoming a mere capsuleers was, but now think nothing of dying at regular intervals or having considerable augmentations and cybernetics built in to us.
While becoming something like a Drifter sounds disturbing to us now, I wonder how long it would take to be considered a new normal. Probably not as long as one would think.
Well, the short of it, yes. If you punch me in the face am I not allowed to punch you back?
See, this is why I’ve reconsidered you as maybe someone I can be if not friends with, reach mutual agreements with at least. It just seems to me you’re very emotionally attached to this issue, and I can understand that emotions flare, because mine do too.
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Straight from a science article published by Chromeaux:
“At Cromeaux Inc. all clones are made from certified human cadavers, all of them received from willing donors”
So assuming you use high quality clones, every part of you is from a dead being. The Drifters do the same, they just skip the ‘willing’ bit.
Also, once you plug into your pod and then into a hull you effectively become a giant cyborg for the duration. Nothing about us is natural.
We are essentially physically disposable, only our minds hold any value as capsuleers. It is this that is transferred upon a clone death, and only this that matters in any sense.
Consider this idea: Imagine we have developed a cybernetic brain system, artificial in every way but able to host a capsuleer mind upon transfer. It is you mind, perfect in every way, yet stored in a computing system. Upon destruction of that computer system your mind can be transferred again to another, or even back to a host clone once more.
Are you still you? Has anything in that process changed you from a human ‘soul’ into something less? Even though your mind is indistinguishable from one that has only ever been hosted in clones?
Where is the difference?
The Drifters may well be simply using the bodies we have seen as a simple expendable host, one that is fairly unpleasant to us. That is due to our perceptions though, to the Drifters this makes perfect sense as they don’t share our sensibilities. If the host is disposable and you don’t care about aesthetics then you simply go for function over form.
The Drifters could be Jove from some dim and distant past, they could be sentient drones attempting to take human form to better understand us, they could be some alien life form playing tricks on us, they could even be super-enhanced goldfish that made a break for it. We simply don’t know, and to write them off as monsters without even a basic understanding of their nature and motivations does everyone a disservice.
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A corpse used to produce biomass to create our clones is no different than any food you eat for your body to produce biomass to replenish itself!
Human corpses are used to produce high quality biomass because a human corpse has the precise ratio of amino-acids, peptids and lipoglucoids to make fresh human clones. They break the corpse down to nutrients, a.k.a. Biomass, use them to create stem cells, shape them in a roughly human-shape mold and direct the cells to differentiate into their final cell form. Except for the brain, which is left in stem cell form just before they imprint our infomorphs in it!
Drifters on the other hand take our corpses, carve them to pieces and reanimate them into more Drifters. Much like how Sansha Zombies produce their True Slaves!
Silly people that don’t know how clones work! Shame!
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Drifter ships shooting capsuleers is not the same thing as attacking civilians. I remember it being the creed of capsuleer life that “you can be attacked, anywhere, any time.” Since you apparently were one of the few people who read my post earlier, did you forget that Drifters have not managed to destroy but a fraction of the capsuleer ships that the CEMWPA conflict or various navies have? And absolute majority of those even seem to happen in Anoikis, class 5 or 6 wormholes, i.e. what can be assumed “their turf”, looking at records right now.
As for attacking the alpha clone facilites; Remember that this technology was acquired from Sisters of EVE, who, according to rumours at least, had developed this cloning technology through the study of captured Sleeper or Drifter technology. Suspiciously, Sisters of EVE scientists seemed to also be involved when the Drifters attacked empire navy convoys carrying them. Something to think about, is it not? I’m also now seriously starting to consider selling my Astero, any takers?
Maybe, because the third time was different? Gathering in plain sight, damaged vessels and no signs of aggression? The two times it happened before was without warning and startling efficiency.
Ugh. Really? I mean, you make a lot of sense and seem more sensible than most, but then you say something like this. No, that is not what I meant at all. I can’t speak for Woodrow, Arrendis or Mizhara, but that is not what I meant at all.
Didn’t say it was. Though, they could actually take the opportunity to study non-aggressive drifters extensively when the situation presents itself.
I admit, the Drifter hunger for biomass is troubling for sure.
As for which matter more, obviously “my own people.”
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Except you are dressing it up within your own acceptability. It is taking ‘biomass’ and reshaping it for your needs. Functionally there is no difference, clones just have more work put in before the body parts are reanimated.
If your mind could be successfully transferred into a Drifter host and you woke up in your pod you would not know the difference until you looked in the mirror or left the pod.
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Considering all of us here are pseudo-miraculous techno-clones, yes.
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I’d rather be made of people than be made of cows or amoebas, since I’m paying the GPD of small country for each clone I make!
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You could be made from cream cheese for all the difference it makes, the end product is the same. A host for our digitized minds.
In some ways it would be better to not even use clones at all, dump our minds into a hardened computer system on the ship directly, not even use a pod. When the ship is doomed simply transmit back out once more, choose the next hull or clone and off you go. I believe this is all the Drifter hosts are for effectively, they are simply a means to an end.
The interesting question for me is why go to the lengths of using a humanoid host at all? What reason could they have when they could simply go grab a citadel somewhere in deep null, steal the clone bay service and work out how to make fresh clones instead.
Is it to intimidate? Is it because they need a humanoid host to pilot the Drifter vessels? Do they just feel cosy?
Trying to determine such things may give us more insight into the Drifters and therefore their motives.
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