[ARC] Semiosis

Hmm, another wrinkle just occurred to me. Even after the Seylinn incident, we know that it was still possible to create perfectly stable and directed wormholes because Sansha’s Nation did it. They were able to create stable wormholes directly into the orbit of planets to abduct people after Seylinn, and invade Jove space to capture Prosper Vault, and we’ve always assumed they could do this because of some captured Talocan tech.

The fact that the Triglavians mention the instability after saying they’ve failed to find the Drifter systems suggests that the instability is impairing exploration efforts. This hints that they don’t have access to their own controllable wormhole tech and are using some other system that is disrupted by spacetime anomalies. Since we haven’t seen trigs flying around inside wormhole space, they are probably not referring directly to the wormhole network but to issues with their own tech.

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I do like where you go with this, but this definitely seems to refer a case of spatio-temporal topological disruption, which would by extension affect both of those things.

Sansha has wormhole tech, but mobile versions need to be mounted on something the size of a supercarrier (their revenants), and yes, I’d say the instability of spacetime would be what impedes Triglavian exploration efforts.

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They seem to have moved on, or at least modified their tech to the point that they can’t open wormholes like that.

No, it’s not. It could also have been done for anthropological research, much as we might observe a less-advanced human civilization, were we to find one more barbaric than the Amarr.

Movement using the Abyss as a navigation medium seems like a plausible possibility for them - we can only enter using Filaments, but they’re obviously a little more capable than that.

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You were much more grandiose than me in going full quasar, and I give you credit for that. I had merely contemplated neutron star mergers and magnetars.

Now, however, you are back to tedious.

Evidence is a fact which makes a proposition more likely than would be the case in the absence of that fact.

You fall victim to the common error of equating “evidence” with “proof.”

Proof is an accumulation of evidence sufficient to establish a proposition beyond some applicable threshold, such as preponderance, clear and convincing, or beyond reasonable doubt.

It has been famously said that “evidence is not proof, just as a brick is not a wall.”

The fact that precursor civilizations spy on us makes the proposition that we are of some significance more likely than would be the case if they didn’t bother spying. Spying on us is therefore evidence of our significance. No, by itself it does not amount to proof.

It is always a mystery what statements will prove controversial.

Suggesting something called an “Observatory” might look across a variety of space-time topologies (to use the fancy words) in order to help maintain and/or repair a network of space-time anomalies in desperate need of maintenance and/or repair didn’t seem particularly controversial at the time I said it.

But enough of that. Veering back to grandiosity, Wouldn’t It Be Hilarious if “full quasar” had actually already happened in one of those wormhole pockets. I have not found any models of an expanding quasar. Nevertheless, I am confident that knowing it was coming would approach “impossible.” My suspicion is that the leading edge would have a shock in front that effectively severed the expanding burst from the observable universe - at least for a Very Long Time. Nothing inside the sphere would have a Plank’s worth of time, if that is even a thing, to get a message out.

Your idea of waiting 30 years before venturing inside the sphere might work. But black holes are not “really” infinitely small points - that is only where our present level of mathematical acumen (and by “our” I mean Caldari graduate assistants; those equations are certainly far beyond me) end up. The inside of a quasar would be similarly incomprehensible, again for a VLT.

We, or a precursor civilization, would know that something was terribly wrong. But neither we nor the precursor would have any idea of the cosmic threat fast approaching. I am not aware of any Gallente science fiction disaster reels which explore this intriguing scenario.

‘Evidence’ of a thing is data that suggests a thing, that provides compelling reason to believe a thing. This is different from ‘proof’, which is a preponderance of evidence and tested theories that all point toward the same conclusions.

That the group who beat the snot out of the Golden Fleet with one hand and four fingers tied behind their backs were paying attention to what we were up to, all across the cluster, isn’t indicative of any threat we posed to them. It might be indicative that they took an interest in us.

Alternately, it might also be indicative that they took an interest in whatever was out there, and we just happened to be it. They might have been listening for something else—maybe the Talocan, even, for example.

This really has no bearing on the fact that the expanding wave of high-intensity gamma rays would be less than a second deep. Space-time behind that wave is not suddenly infinitely curved. Everything behind it is not suddenly part of a black hole. It’s just regular old space-time.

I have given you the definition of evidence. You are free to understand or not.

With respect to the full quasar scenario, we have a bubble of energy expanding outward at greater than the speed of light. This prevents any observation of the oncoming bubble and creates a shockwave in Kappa Itself. Every little piece of matter encountered by the shockwave is excited beyond exotic and will remain so until it is able to cool - which it will not be able to do until the bubble’s expansion slows below the speed of light.

Oh, bloody hell. Enough! Schere! Schere darling! Oh, God I miss you so much. If you are out there, please be so kind as to develop a model for a not-quite-hyper inflationary quasar bubble with the following characteristics:

  • shockwave in Kappa Itself
  • interior region of exotic energy-matter unable to cool until not-quite-hyper inflation ends
  • cooling to proceed in accordance with whatever the currently accepted process of glu-ball/string-ball cooling may be

It should of course be consistent with observations of known quasars. I’m not sure that quasar cooling has actually been given much study. Perhaps an interesting area of unexplored cosmology! It should sync up nicely with micro-bang theory.

After you’ve done all the hard work and published to Cluster-wide acclaim, if you could give us a little mention, I would send many many kisses your way. You should also credit Prophet Nauplius for (through his tireless efforts to destroy the Matari) hitting upon a fascinating scenario. Lastly, sadly, this tedious Sebbie also deserves a mention for at least raising the ante to maximum - if then becoming a bit pedestrian.

Just had my first encounter with the Triglavian construction yard, and my hands are shaking. I almost didn’t make it back alive, I just hit had time to smash the bioadaptive cache and get the hell out of there. I only got a few scans and nothing new to report that I can see, other than that it’s very far along in construction. It seemed to be the usual defense of 14 Leshaks and 3 Tessella rogue drones under their control.

I retrieved a Triglavian Data Vault marked with the symbols for “Augmented Foreign Narodnya” and from that I salvaged a copy of the AFN1-5 trinary datastreams and a Semiosis Conduction Console for the Veles Clade. What a rush!

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so I just took a closer look at the construction, and took some pictures for scale. I particularly focused on the “engine” section, and I am now slightly more skeptical that it is a ship as opposed to a station, the scale alone makes it seem quite unlikely, and the area that looked like engines from a distance, looks like it may be hangar bays or cargo storage areas when viewed up-close.

now there is every chance that I am wrong, but one of the “engines” has yet to be installed, and just from a cursory glance, it looks far too “shallow” for lack of a better term to be an engine capable of moving a ship that size.

I will update this post with the pictures taken, and highlight some of the areas of interest I noticed once I get them edited.

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This is the engine cluster, with multiple portions in the process of being installed (and the uppermost part yet to be assembled). Comparing these to other known Triglavian ships’ engines, they already match the design. I see continuously decreasing reason to rule out this being a ship, despite its ridiculous scale~

Compare the engines above to those on the Kikimora or Rodiva:


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Perhaps the difference between a ship and a structure is not very much at that size. Do stations have engines for maintaining position?

That’s a lot of engine, what about the bits on the front, from the wireframe they look like drone or fighter bays?

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Since this is the first Triglavian construct we’ve seen of this scale, I’m rather concerned as to what it’s exactly intended for. Simply leaving this thing in the Abyss seems odd as the ships and actors there seem to be readily engageable by regular sub-capital vessels, though the Trigs may be fighting forces elsewhere in the Abyss that would warrant such a vessel. It’s clearly a capital ship, likely some titan-equivalent though given its aforementioned size that classification may not quite be correct.

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Possibly something we haven’t seen before, a kind of mobile citadel.

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After re-examining datastreams AEA4-5, AFN4-5, DAV4-5 I’m no longer of opinion that Rogue Drones were integrated with Triglavians, and I now totally agree with your assessment of the situation.

But I’m still quite sure that Detached Navka and Detached Executive Troika is the same entity, which is subordinate to Convocation of Triglav Outside the Struggle. By the way its full name goes “Detached Executive Troika for Sublimation of Poshlost Flow” and it is mentioned in all AEA, AFN, DAV Datastreams. This entity seems to be responsible for external affairs, such as communication with us, influence on Rogue Drones and keeping an eye on Drifters.

But I can’t accept that part of your assessment because from earlier Datastreams, billboard message and new Datastreams it clearly follows that Convocation of Triglav Outside the Struggle is Zorya Triglav and it is the highest ranking entity of Triglavian society.

I’m worried that they are going to make us pick a side, and it won’t be War in Heaven for us this time. If we won’t go with the “Flow” we’re going to find ourselves being subject for “extirpation”.

There were no HFN Datastreams 4-5 found yet. Were Sansha expelled from Abyss for good? Datastreams HFN1-3 stated that Sansha managed to gain control over some pylons and even Triglavians or their parts, which is astounding and worrisome. Don’t remember any evidence of Sansha presence in Abyss though. Maybe there is more to Abyss than we’ve seen so far, deeper than Chaotic.

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I find myself very curious about the Triglavians logistical effort namely how are they extracting and processing materials that fast to build their massive new ship (s) and replace loses elsewhere in the abyss . Yet we haven’t encountered even a single ship to resemble a transport or harvester.

Well, to be fair, you don’t generally see any of a gladiator’s support staff.

I’d assume the Triglavian logistics are in parts of the Abyss that are simply not accessible by the filaments they hand out to us.

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It says it all really, they are the spokespeople, a Detached Executive Troika. In my opinion, from what we have seen in other datastreams, a Troika is composed of one Narodnya, one Navka and a Koschoi. A Detached Executive is a group that has stepped outside the the normal scheme of things. Ignore the mythic mumbo-jumbo, although it suggests that they, and the Convocation of Triglav Outside the Struggle, normally residein the Domain of Buyan, which may be somewhere outside the Abyss and a place we have yet to encounter. Triglavian is not an exact language usually, they reuse words all the time which vary according to context. In short they speak in cultural idioms; ’ Idiomatic expressions are curious in their function within language as they mean more than what each word denotes. … Idioms allow us insight into the thoughts, emotions, and views of the speaker’s background. Language and culture are inextricably connected.’ What we are seeing at the moment are their current discussions as they try to get a better handle on how to approach the situation and Zorya have the authority to do that. That is the whole purpose of an ‘Executive’. It’s early days, I’m sure that future datastreams will uncover the seemingly missing datastreams.

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I do have an erotica-romance book coming up called “Enter my blackhole” that is about the forbidden (and complicated) relationship between a rogue mute unshackled Artemis Tyranos and a Triglavian way outside the struggle with too many voices in its head and their journey after a thrilling escape from BOMBORD installations and the evil agent Omeg Crust that did unspeakable things with their bodies in search of a lot more than knowledge about an impending doom on the space-time horizon.

Not to deviate from the topic, look how much interesting stuff happens when people go around prying some ancient new civilization inner comms. Looking forward to know more about them by themselves. If you date a Triglavian is it a 3-in-1 combo? :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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