Are Asteroid Collision Boxes Still Over-Sized?

Hello Lo Koval,

If you want to mine you’ve got to fly close to the asteroids. If you want to mine safely you’ve got be aligned to an escape route while you mine. When the gankers show up you hit the gas but guess what? Even though you picked an egress that is visually clear, there’s a huge invisible collision box in your way and instead of rocketing off to safety you scrape down the side of the box losing acceleration and sometimes you even stop dead in space. Which way should you turn? Don’t know. Which of the many asteroids is the one I’m tangled up with? Don’t know. Why can’t you fly freely in space in Eve? DON’T KNOW.

Is collision detection a processor hit? Yep. Is programming a collision box for a spinning asteroid extra tough? I suppose so. Does any of this matter to me when I’m bouncing down the side of an invisible collision box? Nope. Programming is difficult but that’s the problem of the game developers. My problem is I can’t fly freely in a space-flight game.

That’s not my name.

There’s a problem with your illustrious story.

When you’re aligned you’re already moving at least 75% of your maximum speed with a direction within a 15 degree cone of your warp-out point. “Hitting the gas” aka “entering warp” shouldn’t move you forward at all, you should actually instantly stop for that brief moment your ship actually enters warp. Otherwise, you weren’t aligned to begin with.

It happens sometimes on every single collidable object in the game, not just asteroids. The collision boxes don’t match visually. Some visual elements don’t have a collision box at all and you can fly right through them.

Most other people in Eve have adapted or chalked up getting tangled as being bad luck. It happens. People learn lessons like “Don’t go diving into the middle of the asteroid cluster to cherrypick that one rock” or “Keep distance 14.5km for mining laser range and plenty of clear space” or “Pick a warp out point whose path is nowhere near any other rocks” or other lessons.

Generally, learning from death is a core part of the gameplay loop in Eve. It is very tempting to blame game mechanics and everything else under the sun – except one’s self – in some sort of cathartic release.

I suggest taking a step back, thinking about how you’re flying, and improving so this becomes a non-issue. Otherwise you’re going to get stuck on every single colliable object in the game.

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Hello Mohammad Mediouni Sh’rifi,

I don’t see it as a small inconvenience. It’s annoying and to be honest I can’t believe it wouldn’t be addressed. You can fly anywhere you want to in the open-space eve universe unless you’re mining in which case you have to guess about the presence of an invisible collision box in your flight path. Guessing wrong might mean you lose your ship. Sorry but I just can’t accept that.

Am I a freak with the wrong idea about the sim? Maybe. But it rubs me hard in the wrong way.

Thanks Everybody for the responses. Sounds like I’m still outta luck for now. Will check in again in another 6 months or so.

Thanks Again.

Dear Whateveryournameis,

This is a captiol “I”. This is a lower case “l”. See how they are similar? Some user names are gibberish. All we can do is guess.

Hard to believe that here I am again arguing with players about an obvious short-coming that I’m not interested in working around.

I can’t fly through an asteroid field and mine without running into an invisible box.

You’re okay with that. Maybe everybody else who plays is okay with that.

I’m not okay with that.

Until that’s fixed, I’m out.

I had to check and yep you’re right:

You somehow have a mistaken impression that this feature is some simple “cpu computation on my local computer”. What you’re asking is actually extremely expensive on CCP’s servers and network bandwidth.

For the asteroid to have an accurate collision box, what you see has to be what everyone else sees. Seems like a “no duh” statement until you realize what this implies. Today, you looking an asteroid and I looking at an asteroid, will see the same rock but in 2 different orientations. CCP Games’ servers isn’t coordinating your rendering of the asteroid, with my rendering of the asteroid.

You might have seen your ship rubber-band due to a network hiccup. The server is trying to make sure all clients have spaceships in the right place. You’ve never seen an asteroid rotation rubber-band backwards in its rotation. That’s because the server doesn’t care how your client and my client see the same rock. They both have a static collision box. So no computations for that either.

What you’re asking for, is for every asteroid in every system, CCP Games’ servers compute one single visual orientation of the rock, and then transfer that information over the network to every client in system. And update that in real time.

Those new computations are:

  1. Increased computations within the core of system server code
  2. Increased bandwidth to send those asteroid rotations to each client
  3. Increased local computation on each person’s client, as they have to process more data each second
  4. All the engineering hours to make that work.

Now, you might look at this and think “you’re hyping this up to be a lot but I believe it still isn’t”. Well, we still haven’t yet begun to discuss the implications of dynamic collision boxes.

What is supposed to happen in Eve when two unmovable objects collide?

For example, park an Orca next to a dynamically-collidable asteroid. Turn on its industrial core. It is supposed to never move, speed of zero, while this module is active. But wait, now the asteroid is rotating into the Orca. With a static collision box, the Orca couldn’t get to this location in the first place, so this question was neatly solved: can’t happen, Orca won’t get there. So what about this new future? Should the Orca move? We already established, “no”. So the asteroid should move? But asteroids can’t move either, they sit still while rotating. What’s supposed to happen? Glue this code to the POS Forcefield code that booshes people away when it comes up? LOL!

This is just one single contrived case, but I am sure there are more.

And look man, we’re trying to get you to play. But let’s be honest. The attitude you’re exuding is showing this: even if CCP Games went through all this trouble to please you, answered all these edge cases and put in the engineering hours to make it happen, there is no guarantee that upon very next death you have to gankers, you’re not going to quit over something else that bothers you. Whatever next on the list it may be.

Okay. There’s another way you can get within 10km of your asteroid without flying through the field. When you warp in, target your asteroid and fly 10km over the whole thing, align with an escape route and stop your ship. Mine.

Excellent explanation. Lots of stuff I didn’t know anything about. Unfortunately it doesn’t change my mind on this issue.

I don’t care what causes it. I don’t care how difficult a solution would be. Those are problems for the people who made the sim. There’s an undeniable fact here that I can only keep repeating: In a PvP open-universe space flight game I can’t fly through an asteroid field without being slowed or stopped by something I can’t see.

Sorry to sound like such a dick but I get that way when I’ve got to fight for what seems obvious to me.

Now I’ll get off in the tall weeds where I don’t belong. Your explanation didn’t show me why it’s impossible, it sort of seemed to me that it shows how easy syncing everybody up could be. The orientation of every rock in the sim doesn’t need to be sent to every player. It only needs to be sent to the players that have a reasonable chance of interacting with it. Just exactly how much info does that require? An identifier for the asteroid, it’s rate of rotation and what degree of rotation it is currently in (2 axis) . Doesn’t seem like that much to me.

Why not make 85% of all asteroids static? The remaining “spinners” are modeled in a way that allows for much tighter collision bubbles. Now the bandwidth takes a hit for only 15% of only the asteroids the players have a reasonable chance of interacting with.

When a player encounters asteroids or any object why can’t each player’s cpu receive orientation numbers that set the rotation and direction of rotation? Then the player’s cpu calculates what the rotation of that asteroid has to be to keep it synced with those guiding numbers. After the initial orientations are sent a “check up” is received every 15 or 20 seconds comparing the values. If your cpu is rotating it too fast or off axis it compensates. No need for it to snap to anything. It can just slow down or twist the rotation a touch to catch up. These things aren’t spinning like tops anyway. After a couple minutes all worlds are in sync. Once a “check up” is successful the frequency of those checkups is decreased to unload the bandwidth.

Why not model only a set number of asteroids, say…200. Each has it’s own assigned rotation that never changes. Now your cpu has that info and checks itself to see if it has to speed up or slow down. Every cpu knows that at a certain time asteroid X should be in orientation X and compensates to get there.

Anyway as you can see, I’m a non-compute and shouldn’t even be arguing on the specifics. None of this matters anyway. I doubt that at this stage in development that this issue would ever be addressed. It also appears that not too many players are affected in the way I am. As I’ve said a few times I’m probably looking at the sim from the wrong perspective.

Thanks for your feedback and taking the time to explain yourself. I appreciate it.

Thank you.

There’s nothing wrong with this. In the real world, you can’t see everything. Your ship is bigger than you, the windows are small, the sensors malfunction, and sometimes you run into things. Also, you are a CRYBABY.

Sims that allow players to be killed almost randomly aren’t very enjoyable. If/When players are killed, they like to know what did it. They also like to be able to see obstacles to their survival. Avoiding adversity is what games are about–Succumbing to the inevitable is what happens outside of games in reality.

Your response makes the third time you’ve called me names. All I’ve done is state facts. I hardly believe that invites name-calling.

If I’ve made a factual error, point it out and we’ll discuss.

If your only problem is that you don’t share my viewpoint then being nasty hardly convinces me to try to see your side.

Don’t mention it. I understand how frustrating the game can be and arguing on the forum is not much better :laughing:

It’s not random, you simply are bad at the game, so you are unable to navigate the asteroid belts. Perhaps you should try something less difficult?

Excellent advice.

I’m sorry to point it out but colliding with an invisible object would be considered by many to be random. Which asteroid in my immediate vicinity does the bubble belong to? Don’t know. Which way will get me untangled the quickest? Don’t know. If I pick an escape from this bubble will it only lead me into another bubble? Don’t know. When the unknown occurs it almost always is random.

Have you considered that maybe I’m not here to argue with players? Perhaps I’m here to bring the issue to the attention to the developers.

Answer me this question: If the collision bubbles were tightened up to make free, un-hindered flight through asteroid fields possible would YOUR gaming experience be hindered?
If it would adversely affect your experience, l’d be interested in knowing about it.

If it would not adversely affect your game or in fact make it better, why not either look the other way or maybe join me in asking for a better game?

Opposition from other players only gives the developers cover to ignore the request.

Lots of arguing and even some name-calling going on over this simple statement:

If I’m in a free-flight space game…I’d like to be able to fly freely.

If you pay me, I’ll teach you to fly safely in the asteroid belt.

I’m sorry you are so bad at this game.

That wasn’t my goal.

My goal was simply to educate. It’s not as simple a problem as it seems at the surface. I think we’re both on the same page there now, which is good.

All that remains is a difference of opinion. I would prefer the devs put their energies into actually delivering the “promised content” of fanfest. And I would prefer if that promised content wasn’t “hey, our asteroids collision hitboxes now match the visuals” if it meant dropping other equally ambitious things. They don’t have infinite resources to deliver things to the player base. The last year or two was a grim reminder of that, with all their energies on “behind the scenes” stuff.

You prefer differently, OK.

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I just want to reiterate that having asteroid belts be dangerous places, which are difficult to navigate, is hardly an undesirable outcome.

Thanks but I already know how to mine. It worked flawlessly for me for months. Then there was an update.

If I’m in a free-flight space game…I’d like to be able to fly freely. Apparently that’s asking too much of a “free-flight” space sim.

You can do anything you want to in the open-space eve universe. Ummm…Except get within several kilometers of an asteroid. Then you’re gonna have some problems. Never mind that getting close to those asteroids to harvest resources is the base line that the rest of the game depends on–You’re just gonna have some problems. Cope why doncha?

I agree. It should be loaded with peril and be an environment that challenges your abilities. Flying into the surface of an asteroid should be fatal. Even getting too close to one should be problematic. Pirates should be able to hide among the rubble. If you’re not on your game and have your exit strategy ready to go you should suffer your fate.

But…flying into an invisible barrier that you can’t see is a challenge that doesn’t seem to fit. Those other challenges make sense. Randomly scratching down the side of an invisible asteroid collision bubble that represents an asteroid that is kilometers away doesn’t strike me as a good scenario like those others. Especially when getting held up by the un-knowable un-seen can get you killed.

How about this? How about an upgrade that you can buy for your ship that displays these errant no-fly fields around the stroids? Make up some BS about the gravity or magnetic fields that the resources generate. Now I have a tool that shows me where the holes are so I can fly through an asteroid field without some random blob shutting me down? How would that be?

Hi everyone
@Horace_Whimp
There are ways around getting stuck in asteroids. It isn’t so complicated.

I got into my first gank today in 0.4. I was piloting a Catalyst and used two of the hardpoints for miners, lol. It worked okay. I did get me some good rat loot.
My fault I got ganked. I didn’t notice the ganker in Local. Oh well. I mitigated the loss with all the good resources I extracted. Sold everything with a good profit. Not bad for one day.