Are Mega-Alliances and Coalitions Bad for EVE?

I was in Delve last night in a Hecate, doing some solo roaming. Everyone ran from me.

I had HAC’s running from me until their Falcon could get there and bring in a carrier, and then it was all “come back brave warrior, why won’t you fight us”.

I’d say even the PvPers have turned into carebears.


Indeed. Years of conditioning and natural selection have left an EVE player base that is highly risk averse (even the PvPers), and so only ‘sure things’ are considered for taking action.

Hence the stagnation. Hence the low population. It’s bad game design to leave a risk/reward balance like that in play for so long that it culls your population.

CCP needs to add to the game, not take away. And the first thing they need to add is reasonably fun and rewarding risks for average players to take that isn’t going to knock a major hole in their budget.

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What do you suggest would be “rewarding risks” that will not end up just being farmed for more ISK and more wealth?

I can

Part of the design issue that EVE has for incentivizing various game activities is that their reward structure is too slim. ISK, LP, loot drops, salvage. And the LP pretty much just turns into more ISK and loot.

A proper re-design to address issues would add new forms of reward so that different activities could be rewarded with different types of desirable game goals.

There is no way to fix the overall EVE issues by looking at one problem in isolation. However, it is also possible to address some issues by reducing rewards in one area while increasing rewards in a new mechanic. Thus, even though both the new and old activities would be farmed, the net total farming would not increase overmuch.

You can also alter the risk/reward profile by reducing the cost of the risk. A mechanic like the Abyss Co-Op setup could be used to encourage small fleet activity, for instance - except that the potential for an unstable connection causing a player to drop and the whole fleet to get podded makes it too risky for many players. Simply removing the ‘timer ends, everybody dies’ trigger majorly changes the risk/reward profile there (and of course, the farmability as well).

None of what you said answered my question.

Ok, so how do you prevent it from getting farmed?

What numbers do you have to prove your claim that “the net total farming would not increase overmuch”?

As bad as the megablocs are, it’s amazing that every “Reeee megablocs” post manages to be worse.

This isn’t a solution. It’s not even a reasoned analysis of the problem. It’s crybaby whinging that the refs should step in and penalize people you can’t figure out how to compete against.

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Your first question was legitimate and pertinent, so it got an answer.

Your second reply is simply falling back on your standard forum habit of shouting “Objection! You must provide absolute proof that everything you say is 100% verifiable without doubt!”.

As such, I will leave it to languish in trollville with 96% of your other forum posts.

But you didn’t answer it. You said:

But you never actually gave us any numbers. How are we supposed to know what the “net total farming” means, if you don’t provide us with any numbers?

When I had my corp 1 in 10 recruits was worthwhile, the rest were bears.

They’re not PvPers. They’re the crowd CCP and people like Mittens actively want in their alliances. They’re like little fascists who are weak, stupid cowards who feel strong and mighty when they can hide in a group. I kid you not, that’s exactly what they are. But hey … you know … easy to control, easy to milk their money.

They’re not PVPers, they’re carebears.


big coalitions are core of eve. If you dont like them, you should say eve is bad by design and it is not that far from truth. But it is impossible to repair something what is bad by design and change how people think because they came to bad designed eve to play bad designed eve.

I think it is completely natural this happens as it is human nature to build such empires. CCP has acknowledged the problem, but I’m not a fan of their “chaos” aka “throw NPC’s at the problem” attempt at a solution.

I think it could be worth it looking at history to see how the empires of the past fell. Maybe it is also just a question of time until it falls appart on it’s own and no intervention is required.

I also think the citadel timer mechanics are to blame for the extremely boring and stagnant situation. There should only one such structure be allowed per system. Everything else should be killable within max 36h.

Yes, we get it. They use their attention to intel and reflexes to avoid fights until they are sure they can win, so they are carebears.

You hide behind NPC corps and Concord in high sec to avoid fights, until you spot a weak defenseless target you can take without risk, and so you are a “real PvPer, brave and competitive and better than everyone else in every way”.

Although honestly, looking at your PvP record I can see why you hide in safe space and pick weak targets. I suppose that’s what ‘real’ PvP is all about, in EVE, these days…

The key problem is not power blocs, it’s that years of unbalanced game design have led most players to adopt “maximum profit with minimum risk” approaches to the game. This is the most rational thing for players to do, in general, and so if the game encourages such approaches they will certainly take them.

Maybe what we need is less focus on alliances and coalitions and sure wins, and more on putting some actually challenging and interesting PvP scenarios back in the game.

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That is because they’re not pvpers, they always were carebears. Anyone who feels that being part of a massive group, possibly the biggest, is the way to PVP isn’t a PVPer and never was.


They generally won’t do anything about neuts in system unless someone pings a decent sized fleet and they get a Pap for it.

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You did not get later invited into joining Karmafleet?

Nope and even if I was I would not accept. Ya’ll have turned NullSec into BoreSec.

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Yes, many are. Especially the “OMG, neut in system. Dock, dock, dock!”

On the other hand, the welp roams are always fun.

I actually do get it, although the point was more along the lines of calling someone a carebear for avoiding fights reflexively, using active information… as opposed to avoiding fights by living in high sec space while calling everyone else ‘carebears’.

At any rate, while I’m certainly not a fan of the current Null setup, what would any rational person be expected to do when their intel shows a new presence of unknown capability in your system?

Just shrug your shoulders and wait til a tackler locks you up, or a cyno appears near you, or a stealthed ship begins its’ attack run? Dock up if you aren’t in your PvP fit, and grab your PvP gear, is the rational thing to do.

It isn’t the players fault for dealing with an unquantified threat rationally. It is CCP’s fault for designing core game mechanics that lead to… no conflict.