Asset Safety fees are a complete rip off

Communications Center General Discussion
82

Ah but the issue he brings up is one I personally know. I too just came back to EVE. I assumed that I’d never get my old account back cause I forgot a lot and had changed emails a few times over the years. When I left I didn’t intend to leave. I thought I’d be able to get back to playing in just a bit so no worries. Sure I had joined my first null sec and moved most my good stuff down… I’ll be back. Years later here I am with this account newly created and trying to figure out EVE all over again. I get encouraged by a corp mate to try to recover my old account anyways cause “who knows? You might get your account back.” and indeed I did. I hopped into a shuttle and visited my goods while glad they were there but I felt a gut blow at spending my ISK to get my items back… But now how do I safely get everything to HS? I just payed a good part of my bleeding ISK supply away to get my items but I don’t really have the skill set to retrieve them. They are stuck until I figure out how to get them safe or as safe as HS ever is.

Should the issue not be addressed cause it’s brought up by someone who struggles to say they’re frustrated in a nice way? Or struggles to put into words solutions to a possible problem in the game? What’s done is done and OP can’t do anything about the past. No sense crying over spilled milk but we learn so that others don’t make the same spill… Unless they just can’t be helped even when you make things better. Others like me face the problem and yes it’s a problem. I don’t know that I have the solution or that any of us have the solution at this moment but I like to think my idea is a decent or even viable solution.

I personally ask that you don’t just shut down someone cause they are having a bad moment. Look at the issue. Call someone out for poor behavior but also address the issues. Others who could benefit deserve it even if you don’t like the person who brings up the issue.

83

Clear.

Now to chew this bone to death like the dog I am…

Why? What is the benefit? Hell If it’s just cause you feel like it’s adequate enough as is and you want CCP working on what you see as more beneficial code that’ll work but what is the reason for your stance? Can we maybe agree that there could be a better system? Could we even agree on what would be a better system? Or perhaps have you help me understand why you think the current system is perfection? Can we come to understand each others views but still disagree in the end?

You don’t have to agree with my views but as a CSM member you represent us players and I hope that at the very least you can understand our (players) differing views. You represent us all after all.

84

This is just an idea from an outside point of view so feel free to shoot it full of holes.

“If” a player knows they have to leave the game on short notice, for whatever reason, they could request a kinda like the suspension of acct’s you can request now? They “safe” your stuff “somehow”, etc. To me, it would have to be for at least a yr to prevent abuse. That being said, I’m sure someone will figure out a way to abuse it.

Seems it would weed out these thd’s?

85

Not the solution that i"d pick but I think a possible and viable one.

Edit…
As I think and edit this into my initial response I think the flaws could be the “I can’t come back for a year” making a player feel like they got kicked out of the game cause “life played hard ball” There would still be the question of what to do with the items in question and if some cost is not justified?

86

I think it’s fair. Not trying to pick a fight, just trying to offer solutions.

87

I disagree that his complaint is partially valid. He knew the potential risk of leaving his assets in an upwell structure. He did not do his due diligence to reduce this risk; therefore, I don’t consider his complaint valid.

However this is one of those issues we can agree to disagree on… especially since we are both arguing in ‘good faith’.

Okay, I do see some issues and some easy ways to exploit it. However, I’m not going to address those issues here because your idea has merit, even if I disagree with it. It deserves its own thread instead of being buried in this thread with the OP’s childish temper tantrum.

But before you post your own thread on your idea (if you choose to), let me offer you some advice on something you should consider. Right now, there is a mothball protocol: storing your assets in an NPC station. I’m not saying this to undercut your idea because here is my advice:

You are suggesting a new system for Eve. That means development hours are going to have to be devoted to it. CCP is also a company; thus they need to see a return on their investment (ROI). I would recommend you explain why CCP should devote development hours to this system and how it will improve their bottom line. And if I was a developer, here is my problem with your idea: you’re asking me to devote development time to make a system for people who are leaving the game and likely no longer paying for subs. Why should I devote money to this instead of the players who continue to pay to play Eve either through a subscription or buying PLEX bought by another player?

I do feel your idea has merit, but that ROI question is a huge hurdle.

1 Like
88

I agree…and have often pointed out that without the oft derided miners there would be no gankers as there’d be nothing to make ganker ships out of. Miners are actually the most important part of the Eve food chain. The krill in the sea can survive without the whales…but the whales can’t survive without the krill.

89

Damn, I thought I was the only one who got the “that’s a politician answer” thing.

3 Likes
90

The idea being there would be no cost to you. Kinda like requesting a long-term protection plan. The cost being you could not reactivate that acct util that timeframe pass. Certain inclusions for the grimmest of reasons excluded. Should you return sooner than expected, than the fault should still be on you for CCP offering such a service to prevent it from being abused.

91

Oh, you got me! I’m mortally wounded…how will I find the ….strength…to….carry on… Thanks for taking the time to look me up though. I can’t imagine caring that much about you

92

If I left a Venture floating in space for a year, I would not expect to come back and find its contents safely stored somewhere. If I left an Orca floating in space for a whole year, I would not expect to come back and find its contents safely stored somewhere. Scale up to some massive battleship…likewise I would not expect to come back and find its contents safely stored.

A citadel is simply a huge stationary ship. And like all ships…it can be destroyed. It’s just harder to do so. But I’m not clear why it should have some special status for storing stuff if you disappear for a year…while the rest of us can lose billions within mere seconds if we venture out.

Surely the adage ’ don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose’ should apply just as much to citadels.

2 Likes
93

That needed to happen. Balances need to be made, nerfs made, buffs made… Surgical strike was a nerf to all ships and they just added some of that nerf back.

you have no value invested in this game, and CCP has the right to make changes as they see fit, regardless how any one of us, including the CSM feels about it… Sure they’ve listened to us on some things but for the most part, they are going to do what they wanna do, it is their game after all.

you are free to leave as you did when the rorq got its much needed nerf, but you should have opted to sell it or anything else and have some isk on hand in case you came back.

94

I could kiss you right now. Rational meaningful conversation!

Content! is the answer. Haulers need to haul. Traders need goods. Each of us create the content the other needs. So if the player has the option to say put their things up for action if they don’t play for X amount of days? Just make sure there is a minimum price or everything is gone for chump change. Same for if your ‘mothball’ settings is to contract out your goods to be hauled. Set things too low and nobody will haul it. Set if really poorly and they will yoink your goods for whatever the collateral was set for. These are things that can be done already in game in contracts. I’m just talking about a script that follows the choices outlined for the unlikely event that… It’s like writing a will or a prenuptial.

I’m not too sure on coding but I think most of the code is in place and it’s just a simple script to make things happen. That said I’d have to talk to a coder to know if that’s true or not. If my presumptions are correct then the initial investment would pull in a last burst of content from the leaving player to the current player base as well as possibly shifting some game code away from storage and putting it into play thus saving hard drive space. It may even increase returning players satisfaction of the game upon return and thus increasing player retention. (assumptions on my part admittedly as to know the actual fallout of an action is to observe said action in practice)

I see pros and not much cons but I’m biased cause it’s my idea.

95

I am fine with chewing the fat on a subject. The ability to place a player structure in space allows organizations (corps alliances, coalitions) to have forward operations and assets in place. If there was no risk to said assets there would be no reason for there NOT to be even more structure spam as a creeping tide of the strongest alliance swept its way around new eden.

The idea of loss or a cost to risking those assets starts to balance out the advantage to the structure. But let us take it to a further point . . . what if there was NO asset safety? The structure dies? All the stuff has a 50/50 chance of dropping right there. We have seen that (as Brisc mentioned, above) and the howls from THAT loss if a player left and came back to his stuff just GONE would be far far louder.

So it would be bad in the tactical sense of the term to have no asset cost, bad if we had no asset safety at all . . . so the answer might lie somewhere in the middle. Which it seems CCP decided to do.

But that is just me chewing the fat, how do you see it? Please, when answering consider the large groups and not just a personal experience. The abuses as well as the uses.

CSM represent you but not all ideas that you bring to us will we carry further, fight for tooth and nail. I have honestly had folks pitch ‘ninja ships’ that can shoot while cloaked because they think that would be cool. I have only mentioned those to CCP over beers as a ‘do you get a lot of these?’ question.

one last thing. I have said in other channels that I am not running next term so if I sound political it is more me being diplomatic than trying to curry favour with you all. not running means I am not asking or vying for you votes. Just doing the best I can until my time runs out.

m

96

turn on auto pilot and travel halfway across eve in a ship mildly valuable and walk away. It’s possible you’ll come back to everything at destination or with a bright shiny new Kill mail depicting your folly. Heck take a really expensive ship with faction fit and do the same. Odds a definitely less in your favor but could happen. A.I. is part of the lore. Why can’t an A.I. protocol activate when set triggers are met and the polite is non responsive?

That said how did anything you say address what I bring up or the OP brought up?

There is always a chance that something happens. The examples you give are subjective. What if somehow those ships are parked 50 AU out in no mans land? I mean sure it could get scanned down but the odds drop. There are exceptions to every situation.

97

Lets look at the issue here. You choose or life chooses to Yeet your sorry bum out of the EVE universe for a year or more. There are three possible outcomes here. One is that nothing happened. The corp didn’t kick you, your stuff is still on site, and it’s like you never left. Two you come back in a new clone or were siting in an NPC station when you left. Your goods are in some NPC station in low sec and you gotta pay a cost to get your stuff back. Third option is anything in null is gone. Start from scratch sucker!

Now I’m sure I’m oversimplifying the issue at hand but I think that’s it in a nutshell.

My proposed change would introduce a much grander array of possibilities. Say you choose to set your goods to be put up for auction. Depending on how well you chose your settings your goods sell for dirt cheep, sell for about what they’re worth, sell for better than expected, or never sell. In the event the goods don’t sell did the corp lock you out? Did the structure get popped and you’re never getting your goods back, or you are too dam lucky and everything is like you never left.

If the settings are that the goods are to be hauled then again depending on the settings made one has all the risks of making a courier contract. How frequently is all of ones stuff lost with the current system? I imagine that most of the time it gets protected.

Now how many people are gonna set their settings on day one and not update them? How many individuals will never set them? I mean if balancing is an issue perhaps activation of the ‘mothball routine’ requires a charge for each structure? Just once?

My proposal is to put more choice into human hands. Human. You know those flawed people who do dumb stuff all the time. My argument is that in the end more content will be generated by such a mechanic but these issues will more firmly rest in the hands of the individuals to who’s items are in question. My goal is to encourage more sense of ownership of every “well crap” moment that one has upon joining back. A possible flaw is that people will screw up so much that it actually decreases player retention of returning players. I doubt it but it is a possibility.

As an individual who talks to CCP or has a line of conversation to CCP I feel you could better find the flaws in my reasoning and also possible solutions. Just pointing out flaws gives me the chance to find solutions. I want the players to have the same or more risk than the current system. The real change I want is the sense of ownership for when logging back in to find whatever mess remains. I know that there will always be that person who’s gonna be like. “CCP should give me all my items and pay me for the frustration of having to deal with…” I don’t give a sour fart about such individuals. I would like the game to give more choice and to empower good and bad choices. Be stupid and your stuff is gone. Be smart and for the truly crap situation you’re good. The Stupids will be stupid regardless and I think loose more and more often with what I have in mind.

If my idea is honestly bad. Shoot it down, burn it to ashes, and take a dump on it for good measure. I like EVE, flaws and all. I’ve been wanting to get back to playing for yeas cause I was hooked. I honestly think this is or is very close to being the best game ever made.

Thought?

98

Just walking away from the game does not assure anyone of asset safety without planning?

99

I’m going to address this part of your insult first. Through-out my life I have been called a know-it-all. Almost every person who has called me a know-it-all in rea life has ended up asking for my help with a school project (from junior high to college) or has asked me a question at work related to policy or procedure that they wanted to make sure they got the right answer for without having to look it up themselves. In short, being called a know-it-all isn’t an insult; its an acknowledgement by the person saying it that I know more than they do.

As for being condescending… yeah, I am speaking down to you. Because you are acting like a child. You knew the consequences to your (lack of) actions and are now complaining about it. And oh, I’m going to cover that in a minute… and you aren’t going to like it.

Okay… so open secret time. My wife started playing Eve about 2 years ago. And being the good mentor I am, I help her with a lot of things: skill plan, fittings, etc. Because of this, the copy of Evemon and Pyfa on my computer has full access to her ESI… which means I know what her skills are and I know how much she makes in ISK.

She goes mining with a corp mate who has a Rorq. She mines in a Covetor, which we both know is the T1 version of your hulks. I know how much she makes roughly each night… and it wouldn’t be too hard for her to grind 3 or 4 billion in 2 months if she tried… in a Covetor… compared to your two Hulks. So, if you think asking for a 2 billion ISK loan with a 4 billion ISK payout in 60 days is too hard; you’re conceding my wife (who has been playing for about 2 years) is better at Eve than you are. I mean… if you want to concede that, go for it.

Oh, I’m going to have fun with this. Before I begin, let’s be clear: the war broke out in early July of 2020. Remember that because its important.

Okay, I returned to Eve in mid February of 2020… which would be about 2 years ago. When I returned it was because the aforementioned wife had begun to play Eve and wanted us to play together. And she had read up enough to know we needed to find a player corp to really enjoy the game. So, I began my search for a corp that would fit us both.

This is early March. During this time, I was talking to a lot of various groups trying to find a group that would fit both of us. At the time, I was of the ‘grr goons… Mittani man bad’ mentality because I quit in 2014/2015 (remember Wizard Hat incident happened in 2012), so I wanted nothing to do with Goons. (Side note: oh, how times have changed). So while I was talking to various recruiters in Legacy colition, I asked about their relations with Goons. While talking to recruiters I learned a major war was brewing in March… that’s over three months prior to the war breaking out. Now, I’ll concede I didn’t know who was allying with who at the time… but I knew war was coming.

How the hell did someone who lived in null sec not know a war was coming? Did your alliance leaders not tell you anything? Did you not read reddit? Did you have your head shoved into the sand?

And let’s be honest, pretty much everyone who paid attention to the politics of Eve knew who the teams were for the next war in early June. You should have had at least a month awareness to move your assets into an NPC station.

Or are you telling me someone who had been out of the game for over 4 years was able to gather intel better and faster than you could? Are you going to concede that? No wonder you think I’m a know-it-all… you can’t see something that anyone paying attention to Eve politics knew was coming. Are you legally blind? Because at least then this ‘caught in the cross-fire’ bovine excrement of an excuse might have the slightly amount of validity to it. Otherwise, you’re just really bad at Eve.

By the way, this bovine excrement of an excuse still doesn’t explain why you don’t have enough liquid ISK to get your assets out of asset safety. Oh wait… that’s right… you’re bad at Eve. Keep forgetting that.

Its no wonder you’re always getting the short end of the stick in this game. You’re bad at it. A player who has been playing for 2 years can outproduce you in mining in an inferior ship… and a person who has been out of the game for over 4 years can gather intel faster than you can.

When you’re this bad at Eve, you’re always going to get the short end of the stick. And frankly, you deserve it. You can only be this bad at Eve by trying to be this bad at Eve.

And finally let’s address the rest of your weak insult. I doubt I cozy up to the PvP community. Let’s review the corps I’ve belonged to since returning to Eve Online. A PvP-first wormhole corp (Be Nice), a mercenary corp (Noir.), and Ascendence. Okay, I’ll admit I cozy up to the PvP community because I’m a member of it. I haven’t been PvPing as much lately though due to RL issues and I’m also building liquid ISK reserves.

As for shiny toys, what costs more? My 10/10 DED Marauder, my mid-bling fit Tengu, my 2 bling fit Garmurs or your Rorqual? I’m pretty sure all of those ships combined are worth less than your Rorqual. So, your comment is wrong… which makes your insult even weaker.

Also what’s your thing against vegans? Someone’s diet doesn’t determine how useful they are. I’ve meet people who didn’t eat specific diets who were utterly worthless and I’ve met some vegans who were some of the hardest working (and thus useful) people I’ve ever met.

I’m beginning to wonder… what are you worse at: insults or Eve Online?

3 Likes
100

Correct. The idea that I have in mind would allow one to plan a contingency from day one or even the last day where they are thinking “I’ll be off for about a week and things should be fine sitting for X amount of time but if I’m gone longer than X I want such and such to happen”

101

What would trigger the auction?

So the game negotiates the contract? How is the fee set/paid, collateral determined?

The decision IS in human hands right now. You choose to put your assets in a player structure or you do not. You choose, upon your return to pay for the asset recovery or shrug and go on with your new player until you decide to write it off as lost OR pay to get them back, someday.

m

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