Asset Safety fees are a complete rip off

[Das_Ankou]

@Brisc_Rubal

The vast majority of players who leave the game do so of their own volition. There are comparatively few situations where players are forced to stop play for significant periods because of extenuating outside factors. For instance, OP has not disclosed why he stopped playing. Likely, he was upset by the Rorqual changes, or he decided the war was boring or some other mundane reason and just assumed his stuff would be fine where it was.

I will readily concede this point. The vast majority just up and leave cause (whatever non extenuating reasons) and I know nothing about the OP other than what’s in his post.

@Brisc_Rubal

That was his choice, and coming back, there is a consequence to that choice. EVE is a game about consequences. You make decisions, you take risks, you decide what you’re going to do and how you will do it based on your willingness to absorb losses or make gains, and you know there is nowhere in the game outside an NPC station where you are 100% safe from all consequences.

There is no asset safety in wormholes, there is no asset safety in Pochven. Both of those regions continue to see significant numbers of players engaging there. There is no asset safety for abandoned structures. The abandoned structure mechanic has been very successful, it’s generated a lot of work for players to scout and discover these, and the mechanic has been used successfully to pull off some spectacular heists, like the one in R-ARKN a few weeks ago, and others in Period Basis six months back, and those are just the ones I was personally involved in. Providing for the potential of a significant reward has generated a lot of content for existing players, who, after all, should be CCP’s top priority. As much as we want players who have lapsed to come back, keeping players who are here still playing is a higher priority in my view.

CHOICE! That is the very point I bring up! Choice! One can in real life set up contingencies on the possibility that X happens. Hence the suggestion I make as a possible change that I feel address both sides of the coin. I’ll quote myself here in case you didn’t see it.

@Das_Ankou

A very valid view! But the player didn’t choose that and it still feels like a punishment for not playing. I personally would prefer if there was some “mothball” settings with a few options a player could pick from such as… when does the account undergo “mothballing”, what happens when the account is mothballed, and any other relevant things needed. The settings or options I’d personally recommend would be… after X amount of time away from game put assets in player owned structures into a courier contract to; nearest NPC station, nearest HS station, specific station. Standard shipping costs per jump applying based on industry standards which the player pays on return to game or finds missing cause the courier got ganked but there is the security deposit for your items. I’d then have it that if the station got blown that the items drop just like in a ship. EVE isn’t safe and I like that but some kind of measure to secure ones assets when they get pulled away from the game for some kind of reason is just good policy.

I want things to be in the players hands. Both the one that leaves and the one that stays. I want consequences to stay a part of EVE! If one has some settings that they just ignore and they default to “items stay wherever they are and drop just like other loot” then those who don’t take the time to prepare for (life) have to live with life while those that make a decision still have possible fallout from their choices as item moving is in the hands of the players. Hell the items may even get hauled farther away than in the current system but end up costing the player much more than it would otherwise. I mean it could even be that if the player doesn’t have enough ISK to pay for the courier the contract wont get posted and if the player has the ISK in wallet that it directly comes out of the wallet to post the contract. I see possible game play coming out of this.

@Brisc_Rubal

Now, was that cogent enough for you?

Mostly. I feel like the last two paragraphs are about a slightly related issue but not necessarily the issue the OP brings up or that I zero onto here. I feel the issue is the sense of punishment that comes from having to buy your items back. I feel like the sense of punishment is from the lack of choice on what happens to ones items. I know that you say one has their choice when they left the game for an extended period of time but that is very much something that can be outside of ones control even though I agree that for the vast majority it’s just because of stupidity. That is not to say that the system can’t be improved. I like to think that my suggestion is an improvement. Are you open enough to look at the pros and cons of possible changes? Are you open to seeing if there is a better solution than what I suggest? Are you open to real conversation?

[Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras]

@Das_Ankou

I feel the issue is the sense of punishment that comes from having to buy your items back.

Rent a storage container every month and store some important stuff in there. stop paying for it, for whatever reason… and when you hear its going to auction, you have to bid and pay to get YOUR stuff back…

no difference here.

[Mr_Epeen]

@Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras

no difference here.

One’s a game. A game that the owners would like people to keep subbing for.

Mr Epeen

[Das_Ankou]

Rent a storage container every month with important stuff. Set up a contingency for if you get into an accident and need things taken care of. Also…

@Mr_Epeen

@Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras

no difference here.

One’s a game. A game that the owners would like people to keep subbing for.

Mr Epeen

[Mike_Azariah]

I think @Brisc_Rubal really covered the subject well, above.

The only thing I have to add is that I do have some donations to the Bus in asset safety, currently as some players donated things they might lose otherwise. I try, as a result, to NOT have my own things in vulnerable station, especially if I am not around to keep track of them. I do understand that this is not possible in all parts of space but then that is one of the risks of living in such space. A saying about eggs and baskets comes to mind.

We know what the risks are, do we not? If we do not know is the information there but we chose not to access it?

With the way the world is changing? Yeah, some may suddenly leave and have reason to worry about asset loss/fees. But that would be the least of their concerns.

m

[Aisha_Katalen]

@Mike_Azariah

With the way the world is changing? Yeah, some may suddenly leave and have reason to worry about asset loss/fees. But that would be the least of their concerns.

People doing the “it would be best for the game” again while they actually means “I want this personally”. It never fails, it’s always obvious and it never works.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Aisha_Katalen

People doing the “it would be best for the game” again while they actually means “I want this personally”. It never fails, it’s always obvious and it never works.

But what if you personally want what is best for the game?

[Mr_Epeen]

Six posts from you in this thread. And every one of them is you being a dick.

I’d report them but what’s the point. You’re part of the clique that never suffers consequences for ruining the forum for everyone else.

Mr Epeen

[Das_Ankou]

If the game stays the same the game gains nothing. If that stays true long enough the game goes stale. I think that we can agree on that point.

Now if someone says they don’t like X cause (insert reason) do you ask yourself how the game may possibly be improved or do you just say “keep it the same”? Why should it stay the same? Why should it change? What does the game gain from change? What does it lose from change?

I ask you what does the game gain by this issue staying the same? What might the game gain with the suggestion I put forth or perhaps a suggestion of your own?

Don’t give the politician bull. You gave a rather non answer to anything. Basically a “no comment” comment is political speak.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Das_Ankou

Now if someone says they don’t like X cause (insert reason) do you ask yourself how the game may possibly be improved or do you just say “keep it the same”?

“I don’t like dying because then I need to buy a new ship”.

Should this be a reason to ask ourself how the game may be improved, or should we just accept it as part of the gameplay and keep it the same?

[Das_Ankou]

@Gerard_Amatin

“I don’t like dying because then I need to buy a new ship”.

Should this be a reason to ask ourself how the game may be improved, or should we just accept it as part of the gameplay and keep it the same?

Ask! Always ask! Delve into the issue. Ask how you can make dying fun? Ask how you can make the moment of death something you both can tell epic tails about! Ask how things may be changed for the better and not just to NOT DIE. Don’t look for the obvious stupid answer and don’t assume things shouldn’t be changed. What if each death gave you some kind of credit? Say a revenge meter based off the ISK value you loose. At some point this loyalty revenge meter gets high enough that you can buy epic hard to get ships that are nowhere near what it cost you in deaths to acquire (you lost more ISK value than the new ship is worth) but you hopefully learned to play the game better and are now being rewarded by a ship that can only be gotten this way. Now for revenge!

Look for solutions to every complaint. It may not ever be implemented but look none the less!

[Phelan_Kheldian]

@Robbo_Midlandson

CCP are just inviting players to partake in RMT just to get their ships out of asset safety i feel, and you right being ostrichised for complaining about assets i’ve already spent years not only skilling into but also earning the in game currency to actually buy being hidden behind a paywall is absolute bollocks.

You can feel that way. I’m curious why someone with a Rorq doesn’t have 2 billion in liquid ISK. I don’t fly caps and I keep at least 2.5 billion in liquid ISK just in case my marauder gets destroyed. Seriously, why don’t you keep some liquid ISK on hand for emergencies?

@Robbo_Midlandson

couple that with the fact that the game has been nigh unplayable in the past 36 hours due to being dced every 5 minutes isnt helping my mood with this game.

Likely not on CCP’s end. If it was it would happen everywhere… instead its localized to the UK. Good job assigning blame when evidence suggests they are not at fault.

@Robbo_Midlandson

and when i place support tickets in for that they are blatantly ingored by the dev/gm team or whatever the assholes who run this game decide to call themselves this week.

UK disconnects are affecting other players who are also likely putting in tickets. More tickets means more work to do for the same number of responders as in times when there isn’t a disconnect problem. So, responses will be delayed due to uptick in ticket activity. Good job showing how self centered you are and how you literally can’t see past yourself.

@Robbo_Midlandson

This is another thing i hate about this game on my return, the entitled PVP jock asssholes that are the most coddled player base in the game spoting off stupid BS comments like this

And now we see projection… its been less than a month since mining barges and exhumers received some buffs. They are also undoing some of the surgical strike nerfs to resistances, which actually benefits PvE players. I’d ask you for some evidence to support your claim, but we have already seen evidence that logical thought isn’t in your wheelhouse…

@Robbo_Midlandson

this game used to be balanced then a few years ago CCP decided that if you didnt pvp you didnt matter and you type of dickheads became there sole focus,

Marauders literally got buffed to make them supremely effective in PvE. Seriously, you can now do C5 sites including the drifter in a marauder solo if you know what you’re doing. While it did improve marauders for PvP, the buff really made them powerful in PvE. Even if HAWs were still a thing, I think people would still use marauders for ratting over dreads because even prior to the industry changes that made dreads very expensive, marauders were still cheaper… and now, marauders are probably better at ratting than a HAW dread…

@Robbo_Midlandson

if you arent fracking careful CCP will damage this game to the point where the only place you’ll be able to replace you blingy ■■■■ toy ships is through micro transactions from them, killing the game entirely, so whilst your comments are always welcome please try and have an actual none dickhead take TIA

Unlikely. CCP isn’t going to pull a SOE and get rid of what makes their game special like SOE did with SWG. They understand how important industry is to their subscribers… the blackout taught them that as many miners sat out and would have ended up quitting if they had kept up the blackout.

Also, this is a seriously bad slippery slope argument fallacy.

Most of this is your fault. You knew upwell structures could be destroyed when you left. You chose to leave your stuff in one instead of an NPC station.

You also knew if it was destroyed, you’d have to pay for asset safety. You chose not to have the liquid ISK on hand for such an event. That’s not on CCP, its on you.

As for what isn’t your fault: the DC issue probably isn’t CCP’S fault either.

You’re full of rage at the wrong people.

[Das_Ankou]

While I think you could have been softer in your approach I think you nailed this. I like personally to see if there are solutions to complaints and to ones frustrations but your points to the OP are I think spot on.

Not that the game can’t be made better!

[Phelan_Kheldian]

@Das_Ankou

While I think you could have been softer in your approach

Let me say I get where you are coming from. I could have been softer in my approach; however, do you honestly think it would matter with OP? They come off as a petulant child and I treated them as such. Odds are, that if I was ‘kinder’, it wouldn’t have mattered and the OP still wouldn’t listen.

@Das_Ankou

I like personally to see if there are solutions to complaints and to ones frustrations but your points to the OP are I think spot on.

There are a lot of other options the OP could have taken. I know what Rorq pilots make with their multi-box fleets (which I’m assuming the OP had since he mentioned plural hulks. Even post-nerf, they can bring in the ISK.

The OP could have gone onto the Marketplace portion of the Eve-O forums and explained his situation and requested a 2 billion ISK loan from someone with the promise that he’d give them 3 or 4 billion ISK in 60 days (it would take me about 30 to 40 hours to make this amount in my marauder). Sure, he could scam someone; but, someone might take the risk to help out a returning player.

But OP chose to not even consider this option. OP needs to accept the consequence to their bad choices. Because that’s what separates Eve from other games: your choices have real consequence. In short, the OP needs to HTFU.

Permaband - HTFU

@Das_Ankou

Not that the game can’t be made better!

Oh, it can be. But what’s better is a matter of perspective and there are a lot of different opinions on what can improve the game. That said: the OP’s desires here are not going to make Eve better.

[Robbo_Midlandson]

Single Rorq Ppilot with 2 hulks with a small mining fleet, oh and for context literally got into the roqr just as ccp hit it with Nerfs 2 years ago hence my leaving, as for not putting any of my assets into an NPC station that wasn’t an option as i was caught in the last great crossfire when i left and had totally given up when the pvp coddled brigade got there pound of flesh from the mining community.

you say i come across as a petulant child, what i am is fed up of being on the short end of the stick in this game trying to enjoy my game time, you however come across as a condensending know it all tosser that coseys up to the pvp community because they have the shinest ■■■■ toys and honestly people like you are about as usful as vegans.

[Das_Ankou]

@Phelan_Kheldian

what’s better is a matter of perspective and there are a lot of different opinions on what can improve the game. That said: the OP’s desires here are not going to make Eve better.

Here I throw to you one of those different opinions, my own. OP’s complaint is partially valid. The sense of punishment is real even if the cost is valid and justified. You are also right that…

@Phelan_Kheldian

OP needs to accept the consequence to their bad choices. Because that’s what separates Eve from other games: your choices have real consequence.

And yet this doesn’t mean that things don’t need a change or couldn’t be made better. I focus on the sense of punishment as the true issue at hand and not the ISK that must be paid. I ask myself why they would feel punished and when I answer my own question it comes to the fact that they had the choice made for them by default even if as you’ve said it’s a known issue and one that should be expected.

On further reflection I think the solution to what I identify as the problem is to put more active choice in the hands of the player with greater potential cost and reward.

Have a mothball protocol that a player can set up in their settings that dictates some actions that happen when away from EVE for X amount of time with said interval of time decided by the player.

If player fails to set up a “mothball” protocol then items stay in place until the player returns or the structure gets, blown, traded, etc. and the items become loot or spoils of war.

If the player is responsible and sets up their “mothball” settings then when their said setting dictate their items go… up for action? Get assigned as a courier contract to…

These kinds of setting increase the risk to the player but give more control. Set your settings wrong and you could loose everything. Do nothing and you could loose everything. Set things up right and have less headache when you come back.

But at the end of the day one knows they decided what was to happen. The player is more convinced that it was their choice or mistake. It becomes much less what CCP did and more what the player did. It even adds more consequences for ones actions and offers reward for planning ahead well.

What flaws do you see in my logic? I’m sure there are some but I’m also sure there are solutions to problems if one just looks to solve them.

[Das_Ankou]

Dude I feel your pain but yoink that rod out of your rear cause it’s not doing you any good. Don’t devolve into a troll on your own topic. Look at why you’re feeling frustrated. Ask questions like… What could be done that can make the game better for others in the future? What can be learned from what happened to you? What is the real issue at hand?

Solve problems and don’t make drama. Or do make drama but let us know that’s your intent so that we can join in and treat it as free entertainment.

[Wes_Wyhunnan]

See that’s the real issue with the OP. If you had been the OP, this topic likely would have been different. You come across as rational and intelligent, he comes across as a complete A hole and frankly most people, including me, are probably fine if he feels punished and doesn’t come back to eve. He is the last sort of whiny drama queen I would ever want in my corp.

[Mr_Epeen]

@Wes_Wyhunnan

he comes across as a complete A hole

Is he the kind of A hole that has 30+ corp transfers in less than a year? Because to me that’s a sure sign of a big A hole.

Know anyone like that?

Mr Epeen

[Mike_Azariah]

@Das_Ankou

Don’t give the politician bull. You gave a rather non answer to anything. Basically a “no comment” comment is political speak.

Sorry, I thought I was clear. I support the existence of the asset safety system as it stands.

how is that?

m