I have the idea that will allow both the Alliance/Corp to passive mine to allow SRP, Sov payments, and industry and also allow line members access to moon minerals while giving groups reasons to attack each other. I give you The Upwell Mining Drill. Only Athanors can use it. It is a high slot and when the moon pops and drops the ore it can mine the ore. Someone logs in and starts the mining. If the station is attacked the module shuts down. This is a simple fix and allows alliance/ Corp to passively make minerals to support alliance/ Corp bills and maintenance without cutting off access to line members and gives a reason for others to attack and fight over moons.
No, passive mining is bad.
(At least unless they rebuild the entire game that mining becomes only a passive but attackable activity)
Which is what I am saying. If you attack the structure it turns the passive mining module off and it does the same thing when the station is reinforced. Also you can come on and mine the ore faster than the module can so you can mine it out from under them.
No, you are saying you want a passive mining module AS WELL AS all the active mining methods.
What I said is that unless CCP redesign the entire game so the only way to mine is via deployed passive structures, any passive mining is bad.
The old POS system used to be a passive system when it comes to moon mining. Nobody really wants to go back to that.
On top of that - you argue it will allow for ‘support alliance bills etc’. The interactive part was introduced to mirror exactly that actually - making the actual mining a group effort to be effective enough or less effective when just done by a single player in a shell corp etc. You also use the word ‘fix’ like there is something broken - there isnt at all as it works just fine as it is.
P.S. The addition of anyone ninja-mining other people’s stuff to the corporate mining ledger is mechanic enough to allow for repercussion chosen by the ‘owner’ of said moon belt.
It was a passive but attackable activity.
No, it is not. Passive moon mining was not only a viable content generator it also did not flood the market with other materials and crash prices as you could only get moon materials from the moons. It also did not require as many alts to run as the active moon mining requires now. You could also easily distribute it to corps or alliances without making it a whole second RL job for large alt swarms.
That is just plain dumb. Passive moon mining worked really well for years and especially with siphons put a bigger need for attention on the holders. It also did not interfere with the mineral market and for many moons was a viable thing to run even for smaller groups, who do not have the manpower to strip a moon off of its resources in an hour like big groups to reduce exposure to risk that exceeds the benefits.
That actually made me smile - all the way through your arguments alts or even armies of them are your answer to a group problem and then you call his argument ‘plain dumb’. Have you tried maybe this thing called social interaction with other players? They are a bit like your alts just a bit more interactive, talkative even and at times even funny as hell - you should really try that.
I have and you would know if you had read the message thoroughly. You even quoted the respective part in your response.
Automation is bad. Top down income is bad. We quite rightly took away moon mining from passive to moon fracking. We should not then turn typical mining into a passive form.
Use industry to turn your corps minerals into something more valuable for srp. And you’ve got corp tax rate as well.
-1 for reasons already stated.
No, we had something like this, it was a bad thing.
You are not understanding what I’m saying. This will compliment moon fracking. The Corp and alliance does need some type of passive income or everyone will just stay in their little holes and make isk and have no incentive to go and fight other people. That is one reason why there are no big wars right now. This allows people to come in and disrupt the passive activity or mine it out from under them if no one is around to defend it. Having Only passive moon mining is bad but in conjunction with active mining is needed to help facilitate wars and objectives.
i am really not sure if you are aware of how the mechanic currently works since you keep mentioning ‘allow people to mine it out from under them’. Once the chunk has popped the moon asteroid belt has no protection per se. Totaly allowing to be mined by anyone who comes first. Null sec has the added incentive that shooting each other doesnt even require any form of war declaration and since every single person mining stuff that technically ‘belonged’ to another corporation gets logged in the corporations mining ledger there is even a perfect way to follow up - be it with weapons or diplomacy. Any current ‘non-aggression’ is purely on the players and not the fault of a very well made game mechanic.
I understand completely how the current mechanic works. Active moon mining is a great mechanic and was needed in the game, I agree with that.
Saying that “non-aggression” is purely on the players is idiotic. The game mechanics contribute hugely to the aggression level of the players. The current environment makes it really hard for wars to be fought. Right now, the current mechanics are fully active sov, meaning you have to mine everything which forces line members and leadership to physically do everything which is good but it incentivizes players staying home to make the isk. Also the sov system forces players to also stay home to keep ADMs up. All good to a point but, when it was changed it went from a fully passive environment to a fully active environment and forced everyone to stay home or have hordes of alts to stay home for you while your main goes and pvps. What I am advocating is moving the needle closer to the middle to help everyone. Your concern is valid but I’m not advocating taking Active moon mining away just adding to it so while corp/alliances are away at war they can still make isk to fund the wars. Also it will give a target for enemies to fight over.
Let me draw a diffferent picture then:
You own the space - so you either have the departments to fully utilize a resource or you dont . In the latter case you either suck at organisation by not having a strong enough industry backbone or you decided strategically against it. In any of these cases you can easily overcome this by actually hiring outside forces to harvest the resource on your behalf and pay for the effort. That keeps one part of your combat fleet open for area protection whilst the other can roam and harass the ■■■■ out of everyone.
Both involved parties gain from this as the harvesters might just be interested in the actual job without all the drama that is null sec for them whilst only a part of the actual combat would be tied down for security purpose. There are all kinds of steps between full renters and freelancers to own members. Applying them strategically and economically is one of the beautiful parts that EVE allows to play with. there are tons of industrialist in high sec for example who would probably love to get their hands on minerals that are hard to come by for them - so those jobs doesnt even have to be paid in hard isk depending on the client.
The first answer to a problem in EVE is never alts but your fellow gamers that arnt working with you yet.
Sorry for the long Delay, Work.
I think you are missing my point. I’m not just talking about using the space. I’m talking about reasons to go to war as well. And right now there is more incentives for staying home than going out and conquering more space. People need a reason to go to war and stay committed to fight more than just we don’t like the other guys cause right now it is hard to be the attacker.
1, The Mechanics heavily favor the defender,
2, If you attack someone you are not making isk cause it is 100% active. Including keeping your ADMs up
3, Once you get the space if you do then what, You cant utilize the space cause you can barely use what you have and now you have to keep ADMs up in space you just took.
Null needs some kind of Passive income to make it worthwhile taking from someone else and right now there isn’t any.
Why should null have any extra passive income? You already have more valuable resources and rats to begin with.
And yes - the mechanics favour the defender. But that doesnt mean you cant harass and disturb their industry and resource gathering. The SOV changes back then where meant to stop the senseless taking of endless space for no reason and with the sole purpose of ‘renting’ it out again. You are not supposed to take space if you cant really use it. But there are more reasons to go to war than just resources. Roleplay a bit and you can find tons of reasons why your neighbour deserves a proper spank.
The not making isk is an organisational problem. If your corp/alliance doesnt have a system in place that keeps you afloat enough at all times then something should be changed there.
null sec would like to have a word with you.
They also dont want the old crappy admin of POS back - no need for word exchange
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