These changes are going to make a nice ripple in the meta. overal good changes it seems. looking forward in breaking and abuse the new toy stats 
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its not about dragging your alliance in to this, you havenāt demonstrated having knowledge of what marauders are, why they are strong and why people are talking about them needing a balance pass.
you jumped on someone calling them out for a statement that they are overrepresented in HA fleet usage, then when presented with exactly what proof you requested you try to gaslight it. Now people are calling you out instead you spit the dummy out and leave
About the Muninn changes, I agree with you all 100%ā¦
It wasnāt an oversight, the Muninn was specifically meant to be :
March 2018 Release 1.0 - Released 2018-03-20
We hope with these improvements the Muninn can find a place as a more agile and slippery artillery option compared to Hurricanes or even Lokis, but thatās some stiff competition so weāll have to see how it goes.
Course due to constant complaints, CCP did the only thing they know how to do, nerf it a few timesā¦
November 2019 Release v.1.1 - Build: 1617768 - 2019-11-26
Maximum Velocity attribute has been decreased to 235 m/sec (previously 250 m/sec)
Signature Radius attribute has been increased to 125 m (previously 115 m)
Ship Bonus to Medium Projectile Turret optimal range has been decreased to 7.5% per skill level (previously 10%)
18.04 Release - Build: 1706308 - 2020-04-15 - āSurgical Strikeā Update (Patch Notes)
Minmatar Cruiser Medium Projectile Turret damage bonus reduced from 7.5%/level to 5%/level (-2.5%/level)
Heavy Assault Cruiser Medium Projectile Turret optimal range bonus reduced from 7.5%/level to 5%/level (-2.5%/level)
Obviously that wasnāt enough so now theyāre just flat out throwing years of history and lore down the toilet by changing the Muninn into a lousy Missile Platform.
Exactly 100% correct.
And CCP still wonders why this game has poor player retentionā¦
Donāt know where you get your info from but Missiles are a racial weapon system for Caldariā¦
Missiles and Drones have always been a secondary weapon system for Minmatarā¦
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āits ok i was only pretending to be retardedā
It wasnāt an oversight, the Muninn was specifically meant to be
By oversight i was referring to Minmatar being the only race that doesnt have two weapon systems represented by its HACs
Also the patch notes you linked are from 2018, the muninn as a ship class has existed for far far longer than that
Missiles and Drones have always been a secondary weapon system for Minmatarā¦
correct, thats the point im making
all races have at least 2 racial weapon systems:
Amarr have Lasers and missiles (and drones) represented by the Zealot and the Sac
Minmatar have Projectiles and missiles (but only projectiles are represented currently in the HACs)
Gallente have Hybrids and Drones (Deimos and Ishtar respectively)
Caldari have Missiles and Hybrids (Cerb and Eagle respectively)
Exactly 100% correct.
And CCP still wonders why this game has poor player retentionā¦
This isnt the first time this has happened, supercarriers have changed multiple times, carriers have changed multiple times, the geddon has changed, etc etc. In the grand scheme of things complaining about rigs is the smallest thing to worry about
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You realize this is too broad of a statement right?
He already said when they are used.
Itās ok.
We get why youāre defensive
So you spent 3x price on this to be a watered down Hyperion. Thats not a sound foundation.
granted this all depends on what the post-patch price of the navy domi is, but with one of the limited building items removed and LP cost being reduced by 60% that hull cost is gonna go way down
You have 763m in modules alone on your fit. Thats 1.25b post patch fit+hull at the base line LP/Isk valuation we current sit around. If the current LP rates remain in the 1k/lp for FW stuff [yes it varies depending on faction between 800-1400] that produces a ship hull floor value of 425m before profits are factored in for sellers.
100k lp + 25m + ~300m in materials after removal of āXā - O triggers
So you spent 1.3b for a ship that tanks less then a hype, has comparable hype dmg that can be killed off, no utility, more cap issues, but a MJD.
iām not sure where you are getting 760m of modules from that fit, the only non t2/meta items on there is the dark blood repper at 75m, two 30m eanms and then the geckos clocking in at 200m (and even then geckos arnt required, you can easily run 5 heavies, geckoās just apply better), nothing on there are items that you wouldnt put on a hyperion, so the difference in price is purely the hull and drones
tanks less then a hype, has comparable hype dmg that can be killed off, no utility, more cap issues, but a MJD.
- tanks the same amount, bonuses and lowslots are identical
- has more damage than the hype if you are running a full rack of blasters, but more importantly you have damage selection
- yes they can be killed off but you have a massive drone bay
- while yes its lacking a dedicated utility high, it has more utility options than the hyperion, much like the sin you can drop turrets for utility without losing much
- not sure where you are getting more cap issues from, both are relying on a heavy cap booster and innate regen is negligable because its used up by the tackle modules anyway
You required an additional rig to fit your equivalent tank, so no its not the same tank as a hype. The Domi Navy has 5500 base cap vs 7200 base on the hyperion which becomes more problematic when factoring in boosting charges, and reload delay with less buffer cap to work with, and 10 to 13 active modules to juggle on that smaller pool.
Your fit alsoā¦just doesnt fit. Its 127% over on Powergrid before implants at perfect skills. 19.22k vs. 15.12k available. Please come back with an actual argument.
Then again, seeing your other posts here, youre incapable of admitting fault so i have little hope in that.
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You required an additional rig to fit your equivalent tank
They have the same amount of lows, tank bonuses and rig slots so I canāt see what would make them diverge, in my comparisons both ships are using a t2 nano pump and a t2 accelerator for the rigs
The Domi Navy has 5500 base cap vs 7200 base
it has more base cap but longer cap recharge time(18 mins on domi, 25 mins on hyperion), i donāt have pyfa infront of me right now but the natural peak cap regens were not that far different from my memory
Your fit alsoā¦just doesnt fit. Its 127% over on Powergrid before implants at perfect skills. 19.22k vs. 15.12k available.
Iām running the latest pyfa build that has the sisi ship data on and its fitting for me, idk what fitting system you are using so I canāt compare
my other posts here are people who were arguing with worthless irrelevant complaints, you are actually arguing properly with data in a good back and forth which is why iām taking the time to explain my reasoning in detail with you. There is no āfaultā in a discussion on changes dude
The hype doesnāt need to fit an ACR and can still fit double rep + neutrons and a heavy neut. Plus have all 3 rigs dedicated to tank (whereas the navy domi has 2 rigs for tank and then the ACR). So all things being equal the navy domi will have lower tank since it gives up a rig for fitting.
thats true but you need to take into account that the domi doesnt need to fit neutrons as it isnt the primary damage source, if you drop to ions and slap a 3% PG implant in you free that rig slot up
Ions + drones is less dps than the hyperion.
The hyperion still gets a set of heavy drones (and a set of medium or two sets of lights). Its flexible enough that it would still be preferred and cheaper than the navy domi if the āgold standardā navy domi fit just to compete with tank of the hype meant it did significantly less dps.
I donāt think moving a high to a low and buffing turret damage is going to make the Navy Domi overpowering.
Keep in mind, Navy Battleships havenāt been touched since 2013, after all this time we donāt want them to just be āok, but still worse than T1ā. These ships should be desirable and properly fill a niche, instead of languishing for another 5 years being sub-optimal.
thats fair, you could alternatively quite reasonably just give it the navy exeq treatment without moving a high to a low, drop 1 turret but up the damage bonus to 10% per level, same effective turrets but guarantees a utility slot
if we give the domi an extra low slot then it is encroaching upon the navy mega which suffers in the midslots to achieve those 8 lows (or just buff the navy mega alongside it)
This was my thought exactly. Why do i fly this [assumed 500m hull price] ship over the Hype with its current stats, slot layout, etcā¦i dont see a reason currently. Ignore the gun bonus and fit nuetsā¦fine, but its cap values dont support that and an active tank. Fit neutrons and drone dmgā¦just a less dps Hype withh dedtructible dmg and more micro management.
My thought was by reducing the turret hard points but adjuating the dmg bonus to provide a near equivalent effective turrets you open more fitting options. The added low further provides a choice at a beefier tank then the hype with less dmg or the opposite. While still having the swath of mid slot options available
It 100% needs a buff to base cap regardless of other changes
The Navy Mega probably just needs a rework to either be more attractive as a fleet option (kind of like the tempest fleet issue) or just needs to find a niche that isnāt already occupied. Possibly doing the nexeq treatment on it.
The utility high iām a bit split on. The domi navy is competing with the hyperion, yes. But we donāt necessarily need to give it the exact same utility. Iād consider moving a high to a low and an extra mid over the hyperion a reasonable compromise for not having a utility high. Worst comes to worst, you can always drop a gun for a neut if you really need it.
exeq treatment on the navy mega would be sexy as hell not gonna lie, a battleship with plate mass reduction and more base speed alone might actually give it the niche it needs
I could get behind that since it has 4 slots in the mids for control in some fits which allows some really strong application of its paper dps and new tracking bonused heavies