Oh sorry forgot the rule that states that I must be OK with the sandbox nature of the game in a thread from someone wanting to bend the sandbox to their whims. Of course!
The point I was making is that it is as valid and reasonable to argue that battlecruisers could have a bit more cargo space as it for you to argue that they do not. @Syzygium thinks there is only one ammunition loadout that a Harbinger needs, and anything more is generous; a rather arrogant view. Salvaging is part of the game, and there is no reason to assume that only certain types of ship should salvage.
Why should a “combat ship” not be expected to salvage that which it has destroyed? Not apples and oranges, but a perfectly rational and sane approach. Until the late nineteenth century it was the basis for naval warfare.
From below, niveau always looks like arrogance.
You might reveal what your expertise on Battlecruisers and their design is. Have you flown them for years? Killed hundreds of them? Lost dozens of them in close combat? Your killboard certainly doesn’t look like it. So why do you think you can give any “reasonable advice” on a topic you seem to have almost no knowledge about?
Because it doesn’t even have the slots to fit many salvagers or the speed to quickly burn to the wrecks. So you would need to refit anyway: run the mission, drop an MTU while doing it, have 8 Salvagers in our cargohold and a Mobile Depot. Once the last NPC is dead, refit your highslots for salvagers.
O H W A I T: while doing that, refit your lowslots for Cargo Expanders and suddenly all your cargoproblems disappear. Crazy space magic! CCP doesn’t need to do anything, all you need to have in your cargo is a salvaging refit if you really want to do this inefficient nonsense.
Actually I have flown battlecruisers for years, on PVE. There is more to Eve than PVP and childish killboards, and they are no measure of experience or expertise.
If you are flying security missions, it is sub-optimal to fly different classes. Some security missions even at level 2 need 150 m3 of cargo space to meet the mission requirements, even before salvaging.
You assume your way of playing is the only way. Oh, and genius solution; just need 100m3 for the MTU, another 50m3 for a mobile depot, plus eight salvagers, and a wodge of cargo expansion modules. Even worse one then needs to stow the armament that is being displaced by the salvagers, and the damage control, etc, displaced by the expansion modules. The whole point is being able to salvage stuff and bring it home. Oh, and hope that security mission did not need 150m3 of cargo containers recovered.
You have the nerve to question my experience, how about yours? Have you ever done this with a Harbinger?
Look, a battlecruiser is a very large space ship. It is not unreasonable to pose the question as to whether it could have a more generous hold. A Paladin, a laser optimised sub species of battleship, has 1125m3, yet by your logic requires even less space for its crystals, as it can only carry four lasers.
Yeah, I totally believe that. 
BCs are among the worst choices to run missions, especially when looting and salvaging with them. It totally fits that you used them “for years”. Holy ■■■■ please…
It seems that you are not very good at logic, are you? Look at the boni that this ship has. It is highly optimized for local tanking and has multiple utility slots for fitting neutralizers or smartbombs. It also has a bonus for tractor beams to enable running content + looting at the same time. This ship is designed for being “on it’s own” and able to do endgame PvE content. It has a large cargohold to store deployables, ammo, cabooster charges in PvP and Loot in PvE by design. A battlecruiser isn’T designed that way.
For Alphas they are the best. Omegas, a Marauder is better.
I know perfectly well what a Paladin is capable of doing, as it is the preferred PVE ship for my primary Omega character. However, just saying “a battlecruiser isn’t designed that way” argues nothing. What is being suggested is that maybe, just maybe, they should have a little more flexibility. PVE is a bigger part of this game than PVP in terms of most people who play the game and keep CCP in business…
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Hold on. Since when are combat ships not supposed to pick up any loot? I do that all the time in my Gila, Gnosis and Typhoon Fleet Issue.
But I like it.as a ganking roleplay excuse - you broke the laws of highes by looting with combat ship! lol
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Nobody ever said that. I am not going to argue against strawmen. Picking up “some” loot if the opportunity is right isn’t the same as using a BC to run, loot and salvage L4 missions.
Yeah, because most PvPers just need to do some PvE to get their money for PvP :). And thats why the game will keep being designed around PvP as the main focus. For PvE you simply use one of the tools you have available, there are some that are very efficient and some that are very inefficient. Make your choice. CCP isn’t going to suddenly make the inefficient ones more efficient for missionruning and risking to break PvP balance in any way.
Who said running level 4 missions? Alphas cannot do level 4s, and level 2 and 3 missions sometimes require quite a bit of cargo space.
Translates as - I am not going to argue when my argument has been questioned. Introducing Level 4 missions reeks of straw…
How is giving a battlecruiser more cargo space going to risk PVP balance? After all, surely a brave PVPer like yourself only uses that cargo space for ammunition and booster charges…
You really are the one who struggles with logic, are you not?
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This kind of snottiness when not getting your way is very similar to two other guys with two other posts both proposing game breaking changes that would benefit themelves while disadvantaging others.
Just observing.
Please, continue your smooth brained thread.
If you read more closely, you would observe that it was @Syzygium who sneered at my logical process; so what you take to be snottiness is in fact simply sarcasm in response to someone else’s snottiness.
Also, no one has explained exactly how the suggestion that battlecruisers might get a bit more cargo space is a game-breaking proposition.
Observation is easier if you remove the blinkers, old chap.
Toodles
Even worse. The game isn’t going to be designed about what Alphas do. Alphas are close to irrelevant when it comes to game balance.
And there is no L2 or L3 combat mission that requires more cargo than the Battlecruisers currently have. Breaking news: You can jetisson cargo to free up some space, bookmark the location, turn in the mission and come back later. And even for an Alpha it would be waaay more efficient to just drop an MTU while running and come back with a specialized salvaging ship. Not even talking about just running another mission which would bring in way more ISK than looting and salvaging a previous one.
You also aren’t very good with translations I suppose.
I already explained that, you chose not to read it.
No you did not. You simply make baseless assertions such as battlecruisers being intended chiefly for fleet actions, and witter on about your heroic PVP kills in a Harbinger, ignoring the PVE angle, because according to you, PVE is secondary to PVP. All just your opinion, not facts.
Simple question: how would a Harbinger, say, having 450m3 upset the balance of the game? How would it affect PVP adversely? It is not as if anyone is suggesting changes to DPS, optimal range, or shield/armour.
Simple answer: A Harbinger could then carry MUCH more Capbooster charges than a Drake, a Hurricane, a Brutix for example, instead of carrying only a few more like now. Like a lot more. Which means in a Fleetfight those Harbingers would be way more resistant to neutralization than other BCs and even in 1on1s they could opt for burning capboosters at an enourmeous rate and still lasting similary long compared to the other BCs. I don’t say that is absolutely gamebreaking, I never said that. I even explictly clarified that I wouldn’t care much if they would get +100 or +150 cargospace.
But it is unnessessary because the Harbinger (and other BCs) are in quite a good spot PvP wise. And how that ship performs in PvE, absolutely nobody cares. (well, nobody who makes the decisions anyway).
Which is not you, never will be. And is not the CSM, never will be. It is only CCP. Who might, just might, have an interest in PvE given that is a serious contender for main activity in their game for most of their customers.
Toodles.
You’re being side lined on purpose, lost in details and weird reasoning.
Again, it’s really simple if you look at the different ship sizes and their cargo. ~400-450 isn’t on par for a ship the size of a combat BC, compared to the others. It’s that simple, end of story.
This attitude means you will not get what you want and everyone will assume you are a dong, and they’ll be right.
Umm wait.. You run a BC for missions? I Have only been playing for the last year and half or so.. A battlecruiser, while I grant you has some great fire power.. At the same time. in a mission run I am not getting the logic of I want the BC to be able to have a larger cargo. Sure blowing the NPC 'rats out of the sky without breaking a sweat is nice, but the BC is strength is that fire power it can bring to bear.
Not hauling cargo. Not really picking up a lot of salvage. It is for bringing fire power where it is needed. So I am not understanding your logic of wanting to change the Battlecruiser actual role.
I guess he ran away.. SIGH
The idea would be to bring a combat capable ship to a mission, kill everything, loot everything, return back for the next mission I believe. Do it all the time myself. Super fun. Less back and forth and swapping of ships.
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