Belief, Gods, Reality and how little it matters

Allright. Gather round children, for today we are going to have a little look at something entirely innocuous and without the slightest hint of controversy or drama. Belief, reality, and God. It’ll be a long one, because we’re going to have to start right down at the very fundamentals of how my clan views these things and work our way up to the incessant repeating loops over in the off-topic thread which at this point can just be randomly copy-pasted back to back with zero loss of content.

This will undoubtedly be very annoying for members of some other Sebiestor clan members on these boards, very annoying for many firm believers and supremely annoying for a sizable chunk of non-believers. In other words, well worth my time and efforts.

Do not expect any sort of scholarly or academic rigor, paper structure or formality. Veracity, suitably enough for the subject at hand, will be random and unreliable at best, and no one will be getting much out of this other than perhaps idle amusement. Stream of Consciousness… Engage.

Reality Does Not Matter But It Does

This is where some will start downright frothing. Bear with me.

The Gripdjur are a fairly spiritual clan. Two-thirds of our governance consists of spiritual authority figures, Volur, Shamans and others that interact in some form another with the spiritual and the parts of reality usually reserved for madmen, drug-abuse and other ways of living ones best life. We are a clan with many who believe in what many in the modern world would consider superstitious nonsense and this frustrates many others.

I know a mechanic who will spend half an our attuning themselves to the generator they’re about to figure out the efficiency loss on, an architect that will spend weeks familiarizing themselves with the spirits of the land they’re about to develop before drawing a single line and our finest cosmologist reads signs and portents on the star map.

However, there’s a secret to this. A very open secret, but so ignored by the detractors that it somehow remains one in spite of our efforts to the contrary. Listen up, because this is important and we’ll be getting back to it later:

It doesn’t matter.

Whether any of this is even remotely real or just figments of the imagination. It does. Not. Matter.

First of all, lets take just how much of what we do consider real and weigh it a bit. There can be no argument against the fact that humanity as a species has some truly incredible super-powers. At some point we took roughly two pounds of wrinkled cholesterol and water and gave it anxiety, existential dread and the ability to create the most wondrous of things. Justice. Honor. Love. Hate. Beauty. Unicorns and Dragons. There is no doubt love exists in this universe, but should you grind down all of reality into its component bits and pieces, you won’t find enough of it to fill a thimble. You won’t in fact find a single molecule, atom or quark of love, justice or honor.

When we created these things, we knew for certain they were real and yet it most certainly took us a very long time before we could prove and measure them. Our brains being very good at dealing with medium sized things moving at medium speeds, like grains of sand, snakes and wolves, and mountain ranges, but very very bad at dealing with small and large things like molecules and superclusters meant we had to take our time finding ways to actually look at and measure these things. Since they are beyond the otherwise wondrous abilities of our two pounds of soggy wrinkled fat. So now we can put someone into a scanner and actually see the bits of brain processes that are physical reality’s very real and measurable examples of love or dread or envy. Every abstract we can conjure that does not exist remains a physical and measurable part of reality once we confined it to a web of neurons and fairy dust.

At whatever point in our history some fellow banged a couple of weird rocks together for the first time and fire happened, they certainly did not understand oxidation, energy, convection or radiation. This power of creating fire that had heretofore only ever been the domain of Gods was however very real. That Glog the Firelord and his descendants weren’t demigods and chosen by the powers that be might have been a bit of a mistake later rectified by science notwithstanding, the reality of it all was that the effects were very much real.

So, let’s look at why Glog not being Chosen by God and why communing with the spirit of a frigate’s power generator being real or not does not matter.

We’re not fools. In New Eden, there’s few who can argue that the Matari aren’t masters of scientific endeavor, engineering and technology. Give us a few tools and we’ll assemble something capable of rebellion and terrifying and very very real effect.

Very few things in this unfathomable reality of ours can be dis-proven. There is, roughly a third of the way between Pator and Huola in the deep dark space between star systems, the most beautiful object in all of the universe. A unicorn with a braided mane that circles around an empty spot of space farting out rainbows and in spite of the vacuum you can smell the strawberries and fairy dust it trails behind it. If a single human being ever laid eyes upon it, it would trigger cluster-wide peace and prosperity as a wave of inspiration would wash over us all from this one singular event.

Prove me wrong.

So, one can not reasonably expect anyone to dis-prove anything. It is in fact a pretty silly taunt coming from either the ignorant, the malicious or the dishonest. Without omniscience, there will always be gaps in our knowledge. Glog the Firelord inserted his theft of fire from the Gods where we now put in pretty basic physics and pretty much every time we as a species have to scratch our heads and go “I wonder how that works?” you can be pretty sure someone’ll jump right at the chance to stuff that gap with a God, a spirit or a wild beautiful fancy of some sort.

We can’t prove anything doesn’t exist, because of our marvelous power of fitting the vastest notions in existence into the tiniest holes imaginable. In a very real way, merely imagining something does in fact make them part of objective physical reality simply on account of it changing the wrinkled bag of nonsense in quite measurable ways.

And this is why whether or not something we believe in is actually real… does not in fact matter.

The effect is demonstrably, objectively, unequivocally and unarguably very real.

The important lesson to take from this is two-fold. For one, focusing too much on ‘objective reality’ and what we have proven to be so means losing sight of the fact that we are very much more than that as a species. We are almost nothing but a giant bag of nonsensical abstract tosh that you will never find on a table of elements, churning in the furnace of a star in its death throes, or created in a particle accelerator. The existence or lack there-of of Gods, spirits and horned ponies farting rainbows does not matter at all, when compared to their measurable and objectively true effects on the reality we inhabit. The second part of the lesson learned from Glog the Firelord is that no matter how far we think we have come, peaks of human development and endeavor that we are, mastering fire and conquering reality as we know it… we most certainly have never reached a point where it didn’t turn out we had more things to discover and write very dull papers on. At every point of our development, we’ve often made the mistake of looking at our supremacy and forgetting just how far we’ve yet to go in terms of understanding reality.

We are Glog the Firelord. An infinitesimal grain of knowledge on the shores of an unfathomably vast ocean of ignorance, where for better or worse we imagine all manner of things and proclaim they’re True. Here there be Monsters… of our own making. The part that should be both inspirational and scary is that just like how we learned to measure, observe and nail down exactly what fire is and how it works, is that we might just find out one day how to measure and observe more of that ocean we’ve populated with all manner of fancy… and find out which very real things live there.

The first thing Glog the Firelord burned was the tip of his fingers.

Thus, I would argue that the Gripdjur as a clan of mad men and women communing with the spirits of the land, the skies and the star oceans themselves has taken a rather reasonable stance on these matters. We acknowledge all that has so far been measured, proven and objective truth while also acknowledging that whether all the things we merely believe are objective truths or not… does not matter in the slightest.

What matters is the measurable objectively real effect.


Now, over to the subject that made me feel like there should be a little explanatory shitpost on these boards: The unquestionably rather strange and yet intriguing fact that so many of us acknowledge the Amarr God.

On Madness, Perception, Divinity and Evil Gods.

The reason I wanted to start this little diatribe with the way my clan looks at reality is that the following parts will almost certainly be dismissed as mad ramblings even with that little primer. We will occasionally have use for the lessons up above, because some of the following almost certainly should be taken as mad nonsense yet should also be taken rather seriously.

I am, as the majority of my clan, a believer. However, as should have become apparent by now, in Gripdjur terms this does not mean we assume what we believe to be capital T truth. We simply acknowledge the measurably real of it and allow the rest the potential for being so in acknowledgment of the fact that some time in the future we might have the tools to surpass Glog the Firelord’s understanding of it all.

I am in fact not merely a believer, but a Volur of my clan. It lacks a direct translation, but the simplest term would be Seer. We’re trained to see all, always observe and look past the surface of things. Few things should be dismissed in the mind of a Volur because it might either be very real, very false, and for either one it will almost certainly have very real effects on us all.

I am also a bit of a cantankerous ■■■■ spending a lot of time engaging in either direct violence or observation there-of in the ever-present conflicts between my people and those who would seek our destruction.

For a good while after my liberation, I had a rather knee-jerk response to Amarr and its God. I rejected it completely. It’s an understandable thing, given how it was responsible for pretty much every single bit of suffering and pain I’d experienced in my life until that point and a very sizable chunk of it for the rest of my people and even others out in the vastness of New Eden. Slowly and surely though, my blind eyes became far more capable of seeing more dispassionately what was, what wasn’t and what might be.

Also, I gained access to a staggering wealth of drugs and psychotropics in general, as well as the capsuleer freedom of being able to go anywhere and observe anything.

So, open to all of reality, there came a point where I became an absolute believer in the Amarr God. The reason was simple enough. I saw it.

The details of where and when does not really matter, but suffice it to say I’ve spent my fair share of time on worlds cohabited in one form or another by both Amarr and Minmatar populations in conflict with each other both as civilians and military. I’ve watched, caused and responded to peaceful interaction, flashpoints of violence and outright wars in these places. You know, living ones best life and having a bit of fun.

All the while, I do what I have been taught. I See.

Just like I have Seen the versions of me that could have been during the Dance of Shadows and consumed some of those to become a better version of myself, or how I have Seen the aggregate spiritual fury of a crowd at a concert, or Seen and fed the desperately hungry spirit of my lover, I have Seen the spiritual terror of the Amarr in these places.

Now, before you start typing furiously, I am as we’ve already established well aware of the difference between objective proven reality and these mad spiritual visions. I most certainly acknowledge that what I describe here has as much attached veracity to it as the prancing rainbow pony, but you should nonetheless bear with me for a moment. In spite of the fact that it might be no more than happy chemicals and implant malfunctions having a wild party in the audio-visual cortexes of two pounds of mad lightning infused flesh.

Have you ever truly looked at massacres, military engagements, crowd suppression, group prayer and fervent zealotry? I suspect few of us have. Some of us have lived lives allowing for the observation of these things, and only a very small fraction of those have done so with the deliberate intent and mix of drugs, mentalist trickery, meditation and toolset required to go where only the mad used to.

There is something I see with frightening regularity when I look at Amarr in these contexts. I see something beyond description. I see a Presence. I see something Other. I see something that thinks, speaks, demands, hungers, feeds. I see something that looks back as it realizes its Seen and it hates. It hates that it doesn’t have true purchase on me. It hates me for not belonging to it. It hates me for reasons and thoughts so far beyond my understanding that it curdles my blood.

I See God and God Hates.

… that was nicely dramatic, wasn’t it? Now, I can tell you right now that this is probably not real. Not the way I see it nor the gut-churning day-dreaming nightmares it has induced in me. I’ll believe in my senses and my perception of the world, though. Not so much because I think what those tell me are objective reality and the truth of the world, but because of one of the lessons we’ve already dealt with.

It does not matter.

My belief in the Amarr God, the indescribable parasite and horror that holds those trillions of people in its mindshattering evil claws, truly does not matter. It doesn’t matter whether my watery bag of neurons perceives a reality accessed through the tools of neural rewiring with drugs and techniques, or merely translates metaphor, sociology, anthropology and intuition into visuals of horror, horrendous abstracts in place of a reality our physical minds simply are utterly unequipped to deal with. What is, unquestionably, measurably and demonstrably very real is the effect of the Parasite God.

The effect remains, whether or not it is a distinct and objectively real being, whether or not it existed before us or if we collectively wrote him into existence as our perception of reality started scrawling our mad thoughts upon the skein of existence.

You can look upon the Amarr and its Rite from any angle you choose. Firm belief, whether in the Rite, the Way, the Spirits and Ancestors, or whatever you adhere to. Non-belief. Non-committal and questioning. Hardline atheism and fervent rejection. In any and all of these, the common reality of them is that their God holds sway and directs them, be it directly or through fervent or malicious actors decreeing God’s will.

This most certainly makes their God one of the most real and powerful beings in all of New Eden. God drove a people to greatness and madness, causing untold development and glory, and unfathomable suffering and destruction. I believe he is real. Others don’t. Whether or not he is real doesn’t matter in the slightest, because real or not… he definitely matters.

At the end of all this mad conjecture, potential truths floating in the vast ocean of our ignorance, measurable and unarguable truths, different perspectives and unbearable scale of the universe, the conclusions will be as myriad as there are people that look at this rambling shitpost. For me, the conclusion is inescapable, laughable and nonsensical as some will almost certainly find it.

We’re going to have to kill that bastard.

Be he real, be he just mad zealotry made manifest through collective delusion, be he all that the Rite promises or something truly other and alien, it does. Not. Matter.

He can not be allowed to live, if humanity is to be free of the very real effect he has on us all.


You sound like a street preacher with head trauma


That was just a side-gig for a couple of weeks of urban recon. Fun though.

1 Like

Which god? There have been 5000+ through history…

Pick whichever one that has given you any particular trouble recently, I suppose, if the one very clearly outlined one here doesn’t do the trick for ya.

Ah, the hypocrites & soothsayers are always quick to spit their bile.

It has always been clear that there is no god, but God. And yet, the OP does not deem it fit to bare their name. Then again, who amongst us would deign to bear the name of God? That, is the reality.

The only inescapable truth is the one held by each brave miner, in their daily prayers …“God, save us this day from the heathen and the ganker. But, if someone has to die, let it be me. As a sacrifice to thy divine Name, so that the hypocrites & soothsayers might still live. Even if just for one more day.”.

Hey, I’m all for destroying the Amarrian god. Tell me when you find it, and I’ll give you all the best combat drugs you may need. Heck, I’ll even hand you some of the really experimental things we’re working on, but be sure you have backups ready, Burnout tends to happen pretty quick. And can get kinda messy, depending on which ones you use. Uh, also, don’t just rely on the neural burner, you’ll want to make some clean backups. Can’t always trust what wakes up after a podding…

Of course it matters.

Does God’s existence, or non-existence, not change literally everything about the way our world functions? If God doesn’t exist, then this is a bleak and miserable world that came about by nothing. Purposeless. Hopeless. But If He does, then everything you have ever known, from beginning to end, is a deliberate construction by a divine being who loves you and wants the best for you.

I’d say that matters quite a bit.

People often refuse my help simply because they don’t understand one very true fact: God is real, and He wants you to find Him. The future of their soul hinges on whether or not God is real. And in their minds, He’s not. But that doesn’t change the fact that, regardless of what it is they believe, they are barring themselves from Paradise by not accepting God’s divine light. That is a very real thing, and many here need to recognise that for the sake of their futures.

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Ah, but you see, mine doesn’t. Either the Amarrian God is real, in which case I renounce Him and reject his offer and go into Oblivion, or He is not real, in which case his offer did not matter in the first place.


The foolish have said in their immortal pod “there is no God”. Until the white dot flickers and dies and they are no longer able to play the game. Then, the slave must finally give up her appetites and have a reckoning with the Master. So it is written. So it has always been.

The universe is as is, whether or not your God says I am that I am. The universe very demonstrably is, and whether or not he exists doesn’t change anything about that. Either way we know not from where it was born nor what void will remain once it ends.

We can believe, of course, as I do.

And for what I believe in… well, Elsebeth beat me to the punch there. If he is merely one more wondrous creation of the human mind trying to wrap itself around reality, or if he is exactly what you would describe him as…

… rejection and revolt against either one is the only path for me.

For the record, you misread me. I did not say that God does not exist, nor did I say that my soul’s existense does not depend on God; I said that its future does not hinge on the existense of God.

And so the capsuleers’ battle for the existense of God continues. (As if God could not defend themselves.) Amarr vs Minmatar. Master vs slave. Brother vs brother. Lawyers vs Righteous. Parsing words with invective. Ensuring black is white and that no-one stands for anything.

The final Jihad will play out like a FPS. Where none are safe. Not heathen, atheist, apostate. Nor miner.

Indeed, regardless of whether God exists, the war continues. I think that’s more or less what the OP was trying to say.

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A bit less than more, but close enough for a one-liner.

It’s the IGS, not every participant got the full two pound serving of pre-ground skull pâté.


Cold Wind would beat the ever-metaphysical stuffing out of your god any day.


The trick to avoiding God’s judgement of your eternal soul, is to not die.

I mean, I could have laid out a more comprehensive argument, from the whole gamut of Sani Sabik theophilosophy, but you( the plural you) and I both know that it would only be a waste of time to construct a giant wall of text that would whoosh over everyone’s heads for the most part, and that actually reading it would probably annoy you anyway.

So the one-liner at the top is all I’m going to say.

Huh, I think someone may have actually read the whole thing.