Best setup for l4

(Anderson Geten) #41

if you make obvious mistakes I tell you, because it is for advices no for “what do you think is funny”.

indeed, I was wrong, the pith L have better ehp/GJ than the T2, while still requiring less fitting.

I did not say to remove 3 rigors, I said to use T2 rigors instead of T1, and then you don’t have the fit for a third, may as well use a flare or cap rig.

the amount of DPS provided by the last DDA/BCU is very low, and rather a sig amp would make it easier to apply /target faster/further/with more flex.

Just because you are too stupid to use EFT does not mean everybody with a brain is an “eft warrior”, moron.

No it does not. it almost never can have a 100% application unless sacrificing tank or raw DPS (precision+double painter+rigor t2+guidance precision scripted). The kronos on the other hand CAN have perfect application, provided the rats are going in a straight line - missile ships just can’t. you apply 8% of your missile DPS to a frig going 300 m/s, and 2.2% to a frig going 1000 m/s. with 2 T2 rigors and one flare. with 3 rigors it goes down to 6.8 and 2%.
Learn to use EFt and then you can talk about “EFT warrior”, mister “I’m proud to be a retard”.

(Dread Saboteur) #42

Fit 1/4 of a gun :))

(Arthur Aihaken) #43

Yes, the Leshak only requires one gun and has instant reload. Ammo tends to be a tad expensive however, and you can’t split guns against multiple smaller targets - so clears take longer. A Triglavian Marauder would definitely be the ticket.

(Nolak Ataru) #44

Ah, my apologies. Yes, it might be worth it to get T2 Rigors for the application, but the application difference is almost negligible in my testing. If you’re constantly pulling Angel missions with elite frigates, then the swap might be worth it due to the base speed.

If you fly it right, you don’t need the extra scan res, and the final DDA / BCS adds about 70 DPS which makes it worth it to clear sites as fast as possible.

Do you not see the painter and 2x Omnis on the Rattle? I can assure you that with the hull bonus and the 2x Omnis, Ogres apply quite well to mission rats.

The Kronos “can” have perfect application… provided the rat’s AI is replaced with the AI of a brand new EVE player, is what you’re saying.

(Arthur Aihaken) #45

If we’re critiquing fits, three T1 rigors on your Rattlesnake fit is not an optimal setup. A pair of two T2 rigors and a T1 flare is actually more effective. Yes, you have a single target painter - but even with the rigors and flare damage application is still pitiful with Fury ammunition against anything but structures and slow-moving battleships.

The deflection fields are fine, but this gives you almost no protection against EM or explosive damage - so it’s very much region/NPC specific. Yes, you can swap those out as missions dictate - but my Kronos fit is omni-damage.

Insofar as the rest of the fit is concerned, it lacks any propulsion module. If you don’t mind slow boating between gates at around 120 m/s…

(Anderson Geten) #46

I can assure you than even with painter, the missiles don’t apply 100%, which means that the whole rattle won’t have 100% application. even just putting the cruise on BS and the drones on smaller, some BS will go too fast/ will be too small for your cruise to apply 100% (and since your painter helps the drones …) Plus of course you do not factor the drones moving into account, only sentries can have 100% application.

I tell you, the rats AI is pretty dumb. it’s “choose a target, try to get in orbit range, sometimes uses the mwd, shoot the target, sometimes switch”.

Most of the times the frigates will go straight at you, because their orbit range is 10ish km

(Arthur Aihaken) #47

And let’s not forget, switching to sentries knocks several hundred paper DPS off that fit. For all intents and purposes, the Rattlesnake is a 1200-1400 DPS ship (the same as many Faction or T2 battleships).

(Nolak Ataru) #48

Still does more than your Kronos, and swapping to Gardes drops DPS to 1557.

(Arthur Aihaken) #49

Yes, well - what you may have in a slight DPS advantage (and that’s all it is - slight) you lack in mobility.

(Nolak Ataru) #50

500 dps difference is anything but slight, my friend. You also have a mobility issue with the Bastion module which locks you down for 60 seconds at a time. If you come across a mission where you need mobility in the Snake you can easily swap a midslot for a prop mod, or just continue to kill stuff as you make your way to the outgate.

(Arthur Aihaken) #51

Paper DPS. There’s a big difference between applied DPS and what you think you’re getting. 1687 DPS for my Kronos fit then. And unlike your Rattlesnake, mine actually moves faster than 120 m/s.

L4 mission income depends on both the missions you choose and how fast you’re able to complete them. That includes travel to and from mission objectives, in-game jumps and travel between objectives.

My Kronos fit deals less damage but excels in all the other requirements, and with a 48km tractor range I can usually snag most mission objectives without having to manuever significantly. For other missions I can simply drop in a MJD.

(Nolak Ataru) #52

Yes. You also get paper 1k DPS, which coupled with your reduced tracking because no Marauder V, would be applied at an abysmal rate. The Rattlesnake has more application mods, better tracking (for drones), better application for missiles, costs less, and is more mobile. My Rattlesnake is moves at 120 m/s while your Marauder moves at 0 m/s thanks to Bastion.

if you want, I can make a Kronos fit for you that has better applied DPS than your current fit.

(Anderson Geten) #53

the angular speed of a frigate running towards a 10km orbit at 1000 m/s and being 50km away is 1000 * 10 000 / (50 000)^2 = 0.004 rad. multiply it by 40 000 and divide it by 40 (the frig sig) and you get a 4 evasion value (angular*40k/sig).

The kronos with no implant, no tracking mod, no bastion, no drug, has on a mega neutron blaster loaded with null, a 6.7 tracking. that means, a 0.5^( ( 4 / 6.7) ^2 ) = 0.78 hit quality, thus a (0.78^2+0.78+0.05)/2 = 72% application. With 2 mag stabs, it’s an effective 575 DPS on the incoming kamikaze.
as I told you, the cruise missiles have less than 10% application on smaller targets, so your 800 DPs is actually 80 DPs on that target. At max, with two rigors T2 and a flare T1 and painter T2. not factoring in overshot.
Then, your heavy drones require the time to travel, and won’t have such a good application as the kronos. That’s why we say your PAPER 1600 DPs is irrelevant, as long as you encounter small targets.

of course, this is with a fast frigate, with a small sig, and orbiting 10km. frigates that fast usually orbit closer, and activate mwd which makes a huge sig bloom - on the opposite, frigates mwd on the rattle makes same DPS, because missiles factor in sig/speed which does not really change.

(Arthur Aihaken) #54

No, I’m getting almost 1700 paper DPS with Void (close to 1400 paper DPS with Null). Applied DPS varies, but it’s typically around 1100-1200 DPS (with drones). Yes, I’m sure you can improve on my Kronos fit. I could also point out that beyond a certain point an increase in tracking doesn’t really offer much of a benefit.

So yes, I could swap out the sensor booster for another range-scripted tracking computer. What I lose in lock time, however - typically means I can’t take advantage of sniping smaller targets at range. I could also drop the Hyperspacial rig for a tracking one, but again - I’m hitting small targets just fine out past 15km.

I could drop the large cap battery for a MJD, but I only really need that for 1 or 2 missions. I could add a 4th mag stab but I only gain a token amount of DPS and I think a RAH or energized membrane is a better choice.

Finally, I could also mention that a dual grappler-web combo works great for most events (but not most L4 missions).