Botting Solution

To combat the proliferation of illegal AI systems (“botting”), give players aaccess to a new technology that allows them to scan ships, engage them with a set of in-game conversational queries, and instant-report anyone that does not respond, or responds “rote” or “suspiciously”. On reporting, CCP does an investigation based on the report, checking server data, and takes action.

Upon reporting, and the report proves to be ligitimate, Concord offers a reward that’s a minute percentage of the total worth of the banned character. Say, a character owns 100 billion, the reward might be 1/1000th, and the reporting player is awarded a 100 million ISK reward.

These “scanning techniques” should only work with a scan that lasts several minutes in game. This allows the scanning party to create a verifiable audit log. The scanned character is then contact with a specific and unique “AI forensics chat” that involves a set of questions and interactions. Yes, a way to circumvent these is to “feign” a language barrier, but there are ways around that. These “forensic chats” scans should not work in high intensity fleet activity, as they can then be used to distract from ligitimate player activity.

I don’t entirely understand how you expect this plan to work as one of the defining traits of the current botting scripts at play are that they warp off at the first sign of danger.

If they are known to be bots and if CCP has some sort of way of telling if they are bots or not from their end. Why not turn them into content? Like a CCP highjack that prevents them from docking up, for the crimes of they tuuke er jerbs. Then sends out a notification via local for the whole region, the agency or notification feed And bam, lots of fun and loot to be had!

So…
Make bots, fill them full of loot from bots.
Hunt own bots, Launder loot.

Uhhhhh, Yeah…
Also why should I be subject to a conversation & botting reports just because I don’t want to talk to you.

Seems like this is more likely to be used to grief actual players rather than bother Bots.

How is this a “solution”?

Cannot be a permanent solution as players will figure out a way to eventually exploit it for PVP purposes,

but…

Most if not all botting in this game is related to PVE even if PVP can be involved.

Maybe if for a temporary unspecified amount of time, or randomly at times during play, whenever a player attempts to do PVE, they present players with a “Turing test” to determine if they can interact in a way where they can provide their own thoughts as a response to a few questions.

It can’t happen for specific actions only or during specified times because bots would find a way to plan to make sure they are present to perform these tests or just simply not bot while these tests are active in game.

Example: It can be tied to randomly, attempting undocking in a mining, ratting or explo ship, warping to a belt, site or signature, other PVE related preceding actions. randomly not every time and sometimes only random days/weeks. It can simply just have to be randomly performed whenever your docked up, if your AFK the game will wait until you come back to finish the test and continue playing.

You have to perform the test before you can attempt these activities but it has to be spread out and random to not constantly interfere with game play or be able to program/plan around as a bot player.

If you fail the test the game logs you out and then you have to perform an even more intense “I am not a robot” test before being able to log back online and then you are flagged for investigation as well.

I’d leave it up to CCP to figure that out, I am sure they thought of this idea before but are rather just looking for ways to find bots without interfering with other player’s game play but if the necessity is strong enough I am sure the community would understand if this helps CCP finally stamp out botting in this game and putting them out of business once and for all.

So a captcha test that’s easy to solve by machines and will cost CCP a ton of money to implement? Sounds like a fantastic idea.

Yeah that is something different like pick all the pictures with kittens in them sort of deal and yes easily manageable with some programming if they only have so many possible variations of the captchas.

Google Turing test and you will understand what I mean, they can literally create millions of different kinds of questions that require some kind of sentient and emotional thought to respond to.

Certainly they would have to be more complicated than asking you how your day is or what your favorite color is but with enough variations to the kinds of questions that can be asked it would be a pain in the arse for programmers to sit there and do the test so many times they finally have a response to every possible question that makes them not look like a bot.

Especially considering it could ask the question randomly anytime during play, random days or hours basically the bot would have to have some kind of alert system so that the programmer has to be present every single time the test is initiated randomly without planning or preparing for it knowing when it might possibly make these test and every time that programmer would have to be present to do the test themselves just to find another question and answer to give and again a long, very long time to get enough input to properly program around the test entirely.

Unless the programmer was always available or present the test would shut down the bot and log them off and then they have to do the test again just to log back on and now they have a flag on their account for CCP to take a closer look at.

Expensive? I don’t know about that I am sure there is lots of information and technical data out there already to do these things and not as hard as anything new they implement into the game and by far more useful than a lot of more complicated features they have added to the game nobody cares about that does little or nothing for those players.

We are also talking about them shutting down bots in Eve online, not just having to find and ban them but a way to stop them from operating entirely without a player present and then imagine the work trying to run dozens of bots constantly doing these tests while also trying to gather data to program around millions of possible variations of these tests.

Expensive compared to what? Allowing the continuation of bots in eve online?

I think the real question you want to ask is bots making CCP more money than it is costing them to try and do something like this?

What is your point again?

For all that you’ve typed, you seem to have trouble reading. lol
Let me make it easier for you.

Again, I ask cost a ton of money compared to what? How they try to combat botting the way they do already? Paying people to spend time investigating accounts and reports and constantly sifting through data only to ban thousands of accounts every season that all get replaced and expanded upon before the next iteration of CCP security taking action against botting?

Maybe your right, the bots have won and CCP can’t do anything about it because it costs too much to stop people from botting in the game compared to what they are doing now.

If creating a program to stop botting in eve online is more expensive then paying people to investigate players bottings then why is botting easier to do than actually playing the game themselves?

Again, your point is? It costs more money?

I don’t think you understand what I am trying to get at, think if a botter makes a program to profit from without using their own time and effort to play how is a program to replace anti-botting investigations any worse or more costly then how they do things now?

Also we are talking about a permanent solution not just banning accounts that constantly get replaced, actually stopping them from being able to bot all together or at least not without constant non-AFK attention and presence to bypass the tests and continue botting until the next test.

I’ll stop trying to figure out what your point is maybe you can understand mine.

:wink:

The main point is a Turing test will create a whole raft of false reports. Which will almost certainly be weaponised the way EVE players game the meta.

You do understand that being AFK is not illegal and not the same thing as botting?

-1

I would answer wrong out of spite :slight_smile:

You seem like you think you know more than CCP just because you’ve read a couple of tech articles a couple of years ago.

If it’s so easy, then why don’t you go apply for a job at CCP and solve it then ? :slight_smile:

My suggestions are free, hiring me on the other hand to do what I have neither the time, effort or personal motivation to do…that would cost a ton of money.

I have a real job already so I have no reason to argue against the point of the topic rather than offering any kind of constructive input. Such as saying it would be too hard, too expensive or just wouldn’t work all together.

What are your motives for being so argumentative about it? what reasons do you have not to contribute anything useful to the conversation?

:wink:

Maybe you would be better off finding a job and probably have more to say useful information you could provide to CCP than I could ever guess at.

That much we could probably agree on.

:smile:

edit: a real job I mean, but hey don’t quit your day jobs I am not telling you what to do.

It’s real gross that you feel the need to try and show off on the internet like this, but that’s your insecurity showing, so whatever.

It’s also really weird that you’re refusing to accept that it’ll be more work and resources to implement a turing test into EVE Online. Because that will certainly stop all the botting while making it better for players to suffer through annoying “are you human” checks that are nothing more than just fancier captchas.

Pro tip, kid. Your ideas are just ideas, don’t get so attached to 'em when they get called out for being bad ideas.

Edit: :slight_smile: :wink:

How exactly is an automated system creating questions that an automated system can’t answer? That’s an obvious contradiction, if the bot can’t pass the challenge then the bot generating them can’t figure out the correct answer either.

Once again, this sounds REALLY distracting for real players, and not an enjoyable gameplay experience at all.

1 Like

This just helps the botters, because every time someone comes up with something new the programmers will adapt and improve their techniques. It’s an arms race, which can only be won by those who write bots.

Why? Because at some point that race ends where botters use sophisticated AI trained to beat any and all obstacles. When a human brain can do it, an AI will eventually be able to do it as well. It just needs the proper training, which only needs to be done once.

Not even using a webcam and forcing people to accept being filmed is an effective strategy against botting, because people could feed the webcam with a pre-recorded video or, hell, nowadays even create the whole person and movement at runtime.

There are DeepFakes for Faces, DeepFakes for Voices (is there a term for this) and in 2019 it doesn’t take years to render a realitsic looking person for a webcam feed.

The absolutely last thing one wants to do is an arms race against them.