Bounty System Overhaul

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
21

So, from what I see, we have several carebears “but I don’t want to pvp” against the measure. Nothing wrong per se with that, eve is a sandbox.

Personally, I don’t see much room in this scheme overall for griefing abuse, which seems, to me, to be the general indicated direction of the complaints.

Overall, I think that this is a good thing, a chance to bring more ‘content’ to HS without it being a matter of direct griefing, such as we currently have with wardecs and gankers.

And I’m someone who spends alot of time goofing off in and out of HS, and am constantly being handed out cherries (aka, bounties)… personally, I’d LIKE to see this, I think it’d be fun to attempt to hunt my presumed hunter!

22

The character farm is easy enough to limit.

  1. Multiple pilots on one account already can not log in simultaneously.

  2. Accounts sharing an email address are not eligible to draw pilots from the corresponding accounts.

This can get as gritty as needed.

As for the WarDec thing… I am struggling to understand why this needs to be spelled out…

If you gain a kill right against me, and choose to persue me, I can fire back…

This is not fundmentally different…

Furthermore, you could turn this into a degree of fleet operations, as a bountied pilot can fleet up, dispersing their active bounty between fleet members (starting to sound like ratting?)

In turn, hunters can fleet up, splitting bounty acquisitions between participating members.

Maybe even take it a step further (or deliniate the process entirely) by making Corps / Alliances able to have bounties placed on them that payout based on size.

The possibilities are endless.

23

Ok, bounty placements:

  1. Wipe all active bounties or refund them.

  2. Placing a bounty becomes similar to WarDec’ing. You pay a fee for the bounty to remain active for X period of time. Failure to stay on top of the fee results in the bounty being declared invalid by Concord.

  3. ???

  4. Profit.

Edit: Allow a text box for people to list the ‘why’ on a bounty that is displayed in a Wanted tab on the character info, so people can decide whether or not they want to persue that guy for ‘Baudy tavern singing.’ or not.

1 Like
24

Did you even read the topic before you posted this? This system is the embodiment of griefing. You have to pay nothing but a little ISK sum and can kill someone for no reason and without consequences for you as attacker. Wardecs are by far a lot less griefy than this or any other bounty rework suggestion.

Also, we do not need more content or PVP in high sec. High sec systems and regions already rank higher in PVP activity than most null sec regions. We need more PVP content in Null sec where most money comes from, not in High sec.

2 Likes
25

I’m going to assume you just like to be argumentative at this point…

And this is different how? I can "pay a small ISK sum (in the form of a cheap blap ship), kill someone for no reason, and suffer no consequences (kill right? that’s cute…)

If you wish to provide constructive criticism, I implore you to do so, but “I don’t like it so it’s a bad idea, just cause.” is hardly constructive.

I’m trying to flesh out an idea to make this a great addition to the game, as opposed to a cobweb littered relic that serves no purpose. I would greatly appreciate help in this endeavor.

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26

No, if you attack someone for no legal reason, you lose your ship, you lose security status and you have a kill right on your head.
Enforcement of the consequence of that gank is an issue (or not, depending on who you ask :man_shrugging:) but there noticeable consequences for your illegal action. With your system, you can just bounty some people and get them killed legally without consequences for you. You can do that from an NPC corp, you can do that from a hollow player corp as well. It does not matter.
You can even counter bounty them but considering that the majority of the bounty hunters will be alts of bounty hunters, you have again created a way to exploit the system to collect bounty put on your head instead of being a punishment that you envision.

No, if you declare war on someone, they can fight back properly, they can invite allies to fight you in their place or with them, they can attack your assets, they can also counter wardec your neutral assets if they fight out what your neutral holdings are.

If you wanted to do that, why didn’t you check out the other topics that wanted to flesh out a new bounty system and offered exactly the same flawed system. Here is a list. This suggestion even has the same NPC mission involvement as you suggest.

In short: All bounty rework ideas always bounce back to my 3 points above and all so far conceived suggestion were abusable without a positive effect in return. If you want to flesh out something new, try to figure out a way to prevent this abuse without limiting the bounty system too much. For instance, some people suggested you should only be able to bounty someone if they illegally harm you, declare war against you or went suspect on you for some reason but what about the remaining 95% of the players that you could not bounty. For example, currently someone can place a bounty on me for criticizing your idea. Other people already bountied me for talking in lokal, mocking them or because they were competing for asteroids or missions in a system. That would not be possible under a system with strict limitations. If you can figure out a way to allow bountying for both scenario scopes but prevent abuse of mass-bountying or killrights for ISK, you would have solved and age old problem in EVE and would be a hero. So far, however, your suggestion is not better than any other in the list I linked.

I may come across as argumentative to you, but I am just sick of the ever same suggestions to cater easy kills to cowards in high sec so that they do not need to risk their own assets.

27

Granted, I do not participate in PvP. So, maybe I am missing something, but, this is not a “punishment” nor is it intended to be. With the factors offered above, this gives Null bears a reason to bounty each other. Makes that multi billion blop drop worth a tiny bit more…

As for HighSec, fine, make bounty hunting in HighSec illegal, problem solved. You get no bounty payout for popping people in HighSec. There, you now have a safe space " " and the system would still work just fine.

Frankly, it’s supposed to cause problems, it’s supposed to be a pain, it’ supposed to be annoying; that’s the whole point. Why else have a bounty between players system at all? For that matter, let’s just make it so if your Safety is set to green, nobody can even attack you in HighSec. There, now nobody can treat you unfairly or attack you without reason.

This countermands the entire ideology of the game. This insistence on a peach in a potato patch solves nothing.

28

Hey Riv,

If both parties get a notification…then you know whom is hunting you, 1 character…why can you not counter that with a combat ship?

If the proposed Collection Alert lasts only 96 hrs, why can you not counter that with special movement , docking up, or not logging in…you have other character and accounts to play with in your own words.

So trapping a bounty hunter…

Hmm usually your arguments are not too bad on threads, but today reading i must say…
Before you continue to call others cowards and/or lazy…
Maybe you should look in the mirror and retake your IQ tests hmmm?

29

Yes, because a hauler who can and is only supposed to fly a hauler, for instance, can “just fight back” against hunter notifications popping up left right and center every day or hour. And that char is now incapacitated for 96 hours and that probably day after day because loads of hunter alts fish for easy targets. And countering Ewar frigates that jam and damp you, while they point you and CONCORD kills you, sure is giving you a lot of room to trap this hunter. Great way to make people log out of the game. Besides, not everyone has other characters and making it more or less mandatory to have other characters or accounts just to log in for something sure is great game design. Listen to yourself before you counter me in your condescending tone.

Yes, it can be fun for people who are prepared, but the vast majority of people are not prepared and will not be prepared. And why should they? They have not committed anything that warrants their legal death.

1 Like
30

Why do you make these wild and baseless assertions?

“hunter notifications popping up left right and center every day or hour”

Count it again.

If your name is pulled, you are ineligible to be pulled concurrently until the Collections effort has expired at a minimum. Again, why do I need to explain these most minute of nuances which should be easy to infer…?

“…and that day after day because loads of hunter alts fish for easy targets”

It is a lottery, not a bulletin board… with a time lock…

“They have not committed anything that warrants their legal death.”

Death is:

A) Not permanent in this game.

B) They logged in. By the nature of EVE, such is sufficient clause to gank you.

C) Like WarDecs, you would ideally be given a spool-up window wherein no “action” can be taken aside from run/hide etc. It very much becomes a game of cat and mouse.

Seriously, this is a WarDec on a player level with a high degree of random thrown in. It has expiration, it has avoidance, it promotes legal actions, it opens a new level of player interaction, and hell, let’s throw in a bypass system.

Proposal, you can pay, say, a faction, to “protect” you, by redirecting bounties on you to NPC pirates. Of course, protection costs money proportional to your characters value and standings.

There, now even new players can afford relatively cheap “bounty insurance” since they have little in the way of negative standings and little assets of value.

31

Because you did not spelled them out in your first post and because I assume, based on your earlier outburst "Frankly, it’s supposed to cause problems, it’s supposed to be a pain, it’ supposed to be annoying; that’s the whole point., that such hard limitations on the bounties were not part of your initial idea at all and I assume based on that text that you were only interested in mayhem, not a reasonable bounty system. It’s great that you iterate to try and find solutions for problems that I point out, though.

It does not matter at all that your ship loss is not permanent. You get a kill right on your head for no legal reason and just because someone had some spare ISK. That is terrible and it will remain terrible.

As for the rest: Iteration is all nice and dandy, but maybe you should have put more of that chain of afterthoughts and iteration process into your first post to begin with? And maybe you want to be a bit more coherent with your iterations. At some point in our argumentation, you said that bountying should/could be not allowed in high sec, now you come up with more ways how to avoid it the effects.
It is true, however, that you had a kind of remedy to the bountying in your first idea. However, you obsoleted your system with the possibility to remove the bounties altogether from your head, because why would I ever let a bounty stay on my head that is guaranteed to ruin my day? That, on the other hand, opens up a nice new avenue for harassment because you can just put new bounties on someone, so that they have to waste money to get rid of them. Or was that pay-away-bounties-idea replaced completely with the bounty insurance now? I am losing track … :thinking:

A gank is not the same as your bounty system. Please don’t mix them up or use illegal actions to justify your legal kill rights for ISK.

32

Well maybe to turn that into old western faction - you got paid by CONCORD full bounty - fees for a corpse of the pilot who had bounty placed on him delivered to their station. All bounties should be placed via CONCORD services.

🤷

33

I posted this here to develop the idea, not because I’m a systems engineer for CCP who has an entire team of developers overshadowing this fully fleshed and mechanized new idea platform…

So, yes, it is developing as we go along, and yes, some ideas overlap and some invalidate others. This constant barrage of “I don’t like it.” while not directly helping, is spurring me to new attempts at relevant fixes for the presented issues. This however, is only further met with, “I don’t like it.” as opposed to useful and constructive criticisms.

Legal kills rights, again, already a thing. As for them being “terrible” I am not here to debate morality, nor would I ever begin to try. I’m trying to, with the help of this community, approach a working solution to this problem, and frankly, it’d be a lot damned easier if the community were helping find a solution instead of griping that nobody is giving them the keys to the Library of Alexandria.

My apologies if I appear frustrated. I can assure you this is only because I am. How do you expect development, progress and innovation, if your only response to feedback for such attempts are “Well… this has problems, and so, it sucks, NEXT!”

Help me help all of us. Stop expecting me, or anyone else, to hand you an Oxford dissertation in 12pt double spaced bullet point format that’s been peer reviewed by an active BBC editor and nominated for an Academy Award.

34

A Concord beacon? I can see that being abused.

35

Within this context, it can only be utilized successfully while on a Collections mission, and summons say, only 1 Concord ship to handle the offender, upon which it leaves.

With the many twists and turns this has taken already, such may not even be necessary or even useful, depending on the end result application of the idea.

36

I dont have much time to read all of this thread, but it would be nice if we were rewarded for killing pirates… the bounty system seems broken as it is. I liked it when you get the full bounty if you get the pod… and i think that should be that way… if you get the ■■■■■■■ headshot, you are the boss… and you should be rewarded in full for it. for those with huge bounties, it gives a HUGE incentive to hunt these guys and even betray them once you infiltrate their corps… I would seriously consider a few more accounts just for infiltrating the corps whos members have RIDICULOUS bounties… which will NEVER be claimed with the current system.

37

It would potentially be nice, but the the sheer amount of abuse that allows as it was would be ridiculous. I’ll try to go through and consolidate the ideas back into the OP, since 36 posts is apparently too much time investment for someone on a forums board…

38

I’d leave Concord completely out of this. My understanding of the bounty system does leave the question to remain. How could it be improved?

It would end up being another way to manipulate Concord,while other intents in that system are being executed.

39

Let me help you there.

First i skimmed through it and i noticed it does in fact share some similarities to Chance Ravine’s idea, which i’m gonna shamelessly plug here and then get to some extra explanation.

I thought under chance’s system 5 slots was enough.

I had also the thought on a tier system, which last time i posted here, it was bounty pool size, now I think sec status can serve as a better balance for it, but that tier system provides intel the higher the tier your target, that updates at shorter time intervals again, corresponding to tier, for example,

a tier one is going to provide a name, it’ll be up to you to go to your locator agent.

tier five is going to include system, and other types of data imperative to taking them down such as what ship they are presently flying (i kinda envision it as a log in tile format) maybe other things, updating as much as possible or with every gate jump.

another thing that is key to pay attention to chance’s video is he also suggests raising the minimum bounty payment. let the debate rage on how high, but that could certainly fix the problem of “restricting how a bounty is placed” and preventing what appears to be the kinds of abuse your detractors are using as their main argument.

40

@OP I hope you know people put random bounties on each other for no reason at all. Just for the lols. What prevents griefing with your new system? Will you only be able to put bounties on people who killed you or is it open season?

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