Well, you know Aria, people don’t speak up about things they don’t object to nearly as much.
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The day Miz is at peace with the world will be a pretty strange day. Or maybe a really good one.
Either way, one way or another I doubt I’ll exist to see it.
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The day I am at peace with the world will be the day when I’m the last monster in it, and well on my way to no longer being in it. There is no virtue in being ‘at peace with the world’. That just says you’re either blind to it or so devoid of empathy and morality that you have no humanity left.
I very much welcome your words on this subject, though. It confirms the necessity of condemnation and judgment, when it’s received with such pathetic whining, poor deflection and more, rather than even an attempt at proving it wrong.
At peace with the world… heh, no thank you. I’ll stay “loud” instead of surrendering to that moral void.
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It’s okay Miz, I was once an angsty teenage nihilist too.
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Oh, there’s nothing nihilistic about this. There’s meaning all over New Eden, in every human being in it. Besides, I think you’re confusing angsty with angry. If you weren’t so busy sticking your head in the sand, you probably would be too.
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There are ways to be angry that don’t involve lashing out ike a petulant child against people who don’t think like you. Maybe you would understand it if you weren’t so busy shitting on everyone who doesn’t think playing king of the hill in your no holds barred sandbox is in any way beneficial to humanity.
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I have always found it interesting how others respond to the anomic lifestyle of the hydrostatic freelancer. Should the morality and ethics of violence be jus ad bellum or jus post bellum? Personally, I don’t think it matters all that much in the end at least in the arena of public discourse – if you believe in something enough that you’re willing to pull the trigger and stack those bodybags up on high, why belabour the point to others? It’s been a decade and a half, with billions dead due to the war economy we, as a class, helped to create. Violence, death, destruction have all been normalized. Why get so emotional about it, when there’s so many other things to do or talk about?
Then again I suppose there’s always the route of the post-modern activist to protest it.
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Aww, the poor Imperials and their apologists. Someone dares post harsh words about them in places they have to opt-in to even see. The humanity, how horrible their fate truly is, woe is they etc. Oh the poor blooder sympathizers and the poor everyones. How can any of them possibly be expected to have to deal with words on a forum? It’s inhumane, I tell you.
Really? You are going to complain about aggressive forum posting? This is what you have to whine about in New Eden?
You truly are worthless, aren’t you?
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QED.
I’m no less worthy or worthless than you, but at least I harness my anger for something useful.
Edit:
Also I don’t know why you think I can’t handle your whiny posting, it is more about that we don’t need another Diana Kim, which you sound more and more like every passing day.
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Are you seriously equating anger and frustration at the continued systematic oppression, mistreatment, and cultural and spiritual rape of our people to incoherent ranting at the mere existence of the Federation?
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I never said anything about “peace”, Aria. The day someone is at peace with the world is the day they’ve stopped trying to improve anything about it. Being ‘at peace’ may sound all happy and trippy to fools who aspire to spirituality, but it means you’ve given up. One of us gets there, they might as well rip out the implants and self destruct one last time.
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No?
Let’s see, a very narrow worldview / code of ethics they seem to lense everything through, very vocal dismissal and hostility to anyone who even slightly disagrees with it, very high sense of superiority on personal opinions… Hmm, I wonder where I got this idea that those two sound alike.
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It’s impossible not to lens everything through whatever world view you have. If you think you’re truly capable of putting yourself in someone else’s position… that’s just because that’s part of your world view. And no, Miz isn’t hostile ‘to anyone who even slightly disagrees with it’. There are some people she disagrees with on matters of politics, war, and even slavery that she can—and does—talk to quite reasonably, even here in public.
As for ‘superiority’… let me put it this way: All of the beliefs you have, all of the opinions you have and things you hold dear. Which ones do you think you’re wrong about?
I’m willing to bet it’s an extremely small number. After all, if you thought you were wrong, you’d believe something different.
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The thing here is, she seems more and more consumed by this anger and frustration day by day. At least the interactions I’ve had with her and seen her speak, anyone who doesn’t bring it to the Amarr like she does and isn’t angry and frustrated the same way, is just worthless and doesn’t care enough. Any differing view gets just derision and “lul are you afraid of mean words on some forums”. ■■■■ that. I work for our people in my own way, just like she does.
I don’t think I’m wrong about any of my opinions, until proven otherwise. The superiority comes from when you start acting like thinking anyway differently makes other people worth less than you, which she pretty much stated right up there.
So-- here’s the odd thing, though, Arrendis: I mostly am at peace with the world.
The Totality is. It’s not a problem to be solved; it’s an environment to exist in and explore. Empires rise and fall, and people find all kinds of different ways to relate to each other … some of them awful.
That’s not the world’s fault. It’s just how we are. This world wasn’t made for our convenience. Most people are doing pretty well if they’re just keeping their lives together and living more or less happily. A little happiness isn’t something to take for granted, or something to begrudge people who are getting to enjoy their lives a little.
I don’t even begrudge Miz the happiness she’s found with you.
I’m okay with the world. Maybe that means I’m a happy trippy person, to you-- someone unserious. But really, I think it’s serious people trying to “fix” the world who do a good percentage of the damage. I don’t think that makes them bad people; just, I guess … polar? A lot of the time.
I want to see with clear eyes-- not to judge; to understand. That’s my main goal in this life. Maybe if I were Minmatar I’d share in the rage that seems to be pretty common to your culture. But, I’m not, and I don’t. The world and I are pretty much okay.
It’s myself I’m not fully at peace with.
Sometimes I run into something that’s really painful and hard to see. Sometimes it’s in my power to help. I try to be kind. I try not to be cold, or cruel, or arrogant, but there’s no getting around that I kill people really easily. We all do. I’m not really okay with that, and I don’t think being okay with it would make me a better person.
If I find a perfect solution I’ll let you know.
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Actually, by what I’ve seen of her, she’s been pretty sedate lately. But, you know, perception’s all subjective (going back to that ‘lensing through your world view’ thing), so I can see how you might see her use of somewhat aggressive words that way. At the same time, though, you should notice she doesn’t take the same level of confrontational and aggressively challenging tone with say, the Amarr. (Aria, after all, is not Amarr, and doesn’t believe in their faith. She’s a retainer.)
If I had to guess, it’s because she’s challenging people like Aria, like you, sometimes like me, to re-examine what they’re doing in light of the principles they claim to espouse. Does that mean she’s always right about her assessments of people? Of course not, nobody’s perfect except me, and that’s only because blindingly arrogant self-directed snark is a thing.
So if she’s raging at you… then she still holds out some hope for you. Even if you think she’s wrong, you should at least appreciate that.
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So, here’s the odd thing, Aria: that condition you describe, where people are lucky to just get by? That should not be. With the technology we have, minimal standards of living should be a thing we don’t even have to worry about anymore. To have people as rich as we are, or as rich as the upper echelons of any of the empires are, while still having indigent poor scrabbling to try to feed their children? This should be repugnant to any human being who claims to have empathy for another.
And uhm… Aria… I don’t know how to tell you this, but Miz and I aren’t together, and haven’t been for years now. It was a short-lived thing, and it ended, and that’s all I’m gonna say about that.
As for…
Tell you what: Let me start cutting into you, physically, with a dull knife. When we’ve been doing that for a few hundred years without end, then you can talk about rage and the Minmatar culture.
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… Oh. Huh. I guess I misunderstood. Recently it’s seemed like you for sure must be dating again.
Yeah, you’re, um, not, really changing my perception that as a people you’re pretty angry right here, Arrendis.
It is, though. Post-scarcity stuff hasn’t really happened. Maybe you’d like to try helping out with Saede Riordan’s kinda-sorta utopian experiments at Origin? They’re a couple years in without falling to bits. I’ll be really encouraged if they make it to twenty!
My own feeling is, people are people are people are people are people are people are people are people. And basically, you can’t help that, not without pulling a Kuvakei and almost certainly making an even bigger hash of us.
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Indeed, perception is subjective. Most I have to go with is just certain threads and rare discussions in some chat channel that I’ve participated in, I don’t religiously follow all she says or does. From those, that’s how she’s come off to me.
This assesment does sound plausible. However going back to the ‘lens thing’ each time I’ve talked with her, it seems all to be about her way or the highway. That the only way to do right by our people is just one way - actively raiding the Empire and freeing slaves - and everything else is just doing it wrong.
That’s nice. Maybe I appreciate that. But I thought she hated people who seek acceptance from other people while sacrificing their own principles.
And this is one of those things. Minmatar are not a monolithic culture. To be Mimatar you don’t have to be really super pissed about the Amarr all the time with no pause. I see that as regressing as a culture, not advancing. I’ve had many disagreements over this one, and I don’t expect to see about it eye-to-eye with a lot of people in a long time.
Because we’re not trying to kill each other? Pssst The Imperium’s just opened up an assault on Tribute. We’re trying to kill each other.
I never said we’re not. I’m saying you’re not in any position to judge or comment on it.
Or maybe they should stop hiding in a wormhole and try helping the rest of humanity. You say people aren’t going to change. I say that kind of fatalistic acceptance of injustice and inequity is exactly what I meant by “The day someone is at peace with the world is the day they’ve stopped trying to improve anything about it. Being ‘at peace’ may sound all happy and trippy to fools who aspire to spirituality, but it means you’ve given up. One of us gets there, they might as well rip out the implants and self destruct one last time.”
Sure. Her way is the only way she feels is 100% right… because if it wasn’t, she wouldn’t be doing it. She’s combative, not diplomatic. She’s open and up front about what she feels she is: a weapon. Would you expect a missile to feel negotiations are effective?
Really, as much as it nearly shook my carrier to bits, I think she should get back into her music. She’s very effective as a publicity engine that way.
Which might be why she gets so fed up with Aria, and can chat amiably (if not amicably) with Aldrith—but there’s a difference between sacrificing your principles to seek acceptance… and thoughtful consideration of another viewpoint that results in ‘you know what? I see what you’re saying, you’re right’.
Being open to discussion is not the same as being bereft of principles—or being unfaithful to those you have.
No, you don’t. I’m not. I have friends within the Empire. But you know, other than Samira, if they start opining about ‘Minmatar rage’, I’m gonna shut them down, too. Let them live as part of a maimed and brutalized people for a few generations, we’ll see how they feel about crap.
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