Can Eve Online survive without PvP?

Communications Center General Discussion
41

I think you brought up some good points in your post, and would toss you a like if I had any left. I did want to point out one thing though. I think it was Seamus Donahue (spelling) of Eve University who said this, but players don’t call it market PvP in order to make it sound more grandiose than it really is. They call it market PvP because that’s a useful lens for looking at it. See, Eve doesn’t have a virtual economy (i.e. Fable), but instead has a real economy dealing in virtual goods -and there’s a big difference between the two. When you make industry and trade decisions, you are not trying to game mechanics or algorithms. You are trying to service real people, and are in competition with other players. And so, that’s why they call it market PvP -it’s because its a competition between players, and that should influence your decision making process.

I mean, there are some :wink: that call what we do “Forum PvP.” But that doesn’t mean that we’re under the delusion that this is equivalent to pew. It’s because we are competing in the marketplace of ideas.

42

I need to disagree with you in 1 single point.

It’s not trolling, this is pure stupidity.

Ofc it’s easier to type than to think.

There’s a reason PvE servers are always empty and PvP servers full. e.g. WoW, you can simply ask the poster what he is going to do after amassing so much wealth.

Ofc he’s gonna ask for a transfer.

This is the end of EVE, the level of stupidity is below the average. We are sinking…

1 Like
43

You’re only going to get ganked with any frequency if you put a stupid amount of bling or valuables in that condor.
Now solo your battleship in low sec or pochven and see what will happen. High sec isn’t the best general example.

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44

My battleship made the 57 jump trip to nullsec HQ…half of which was via nullsec and lowsec. I’ve often found nullsec completely empty…system after system of nobody. Lowsec is the real danger place in Eve, but then I send a scout ahead to check for gate camps.

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45

Perhaps I’m too much of an optimist.

46

I didn’t read your post, but I will tell you that whatever you said was wrong. No PvP, no ship loss. No ship loss, no reason to buy ships. No reason to buy ships, no reason to produce ships. No reason to produce ships, no reasons to gather resources.

In short: no PvP ends up with no industrialists.

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47

Consent is implied by undocking.

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48

But finally !

Would you be completely off the mark at CCP or what?

PvP has nothing to do with it! It is the PLEXs who are solely responsible for all this ■■■■ because this online game is now equivalent to a pay to win.

CCP killed the fun of the game by bringing this ■■■■ into New Eden, like legalizing a drug store or IRL scam/cheating.

Where’s the fun in the game now that every strategy fanatic has shunned the game for the past decade because of it?

It is towards them, all these forgotten people who nevertheless made EvE Online’s glory in its time by their number, that CCP must turn from now on; you owe us that after all, since in the end:

1- What is the rhyme of 50 Titans battles that the players concerned have only financed with all these pesky PLEXs?

2- What does it mean to be robbed at a gate of all your hard-earned goods by an unscrupulous multi-PLEXed gang?

3- What does this rhyme with, etc.?

Is this what you call persistent world at CCP?

So think a little damn it! These PLEXs have made the persistent world of New Eden totally improbable; it is no longer at all a persistent world at such a level of gabgia.

This is the real reason that the last players - that is to say all those who like me, have not yet abandoned the game - have finally turned to PvE, and this probably only out of nostalgia for some ; or how to remember the good years for a few hours from time to time only…

At least the NPCs, they don’t cheat, they don’t buy their ships with PLEXs!

Also, all your bogus analysis would only have the effect, if it had to be implemented, of accelerating your final fall, and quite frankly there, it would finally be fair game; it would be well deserved after all, as you show yourselves to be so limited in spite of all the alerts which have been judiciously addressed to you for ages.

Conversely, even if it means having to open a second server, restore the latest version of the game located just before the arrival of these pesky PLEXs.

So do this experiment rather than procrastinating ad infinitum. And let the players of this server manage their virtual life as they see fit for once. Never interfere again.

If players from this server then sell ISK to each other via ebay or other, it will be their right because it is indeed their time that will be put into play on this server and then exchanged between them, and not simply money. money arriving in excess of subscription costs, via bogus PLEXs invented from scratch by CCP out of greed.

In other words, CCP will collect on this second server only subscription costs which must remain reasonable and I have already said what seems to me to be reasonable for an online game: $9.99 or €.

By doing this, the universe of New Eden will regain its child’s soul and become truly persistent again, far from any form of multi-PLEXed abuse and cheating that led you to the fiasco that we know; if players want to cheat via PLEXs, they can then go to the first server. Maybe some players will even have two accounts, one on each server: EvE Online Classic or/and EvE Online PLEXed; who can know?

As I already said on another topic, Blizzard observes to its great surprise (they also had a lot of trouble hearing the alerts of their players) that some players play both WoW Classic and WoW of the last generation … Like what.

This initiative on the Blizzard side is therefore a great success. Also, why the hell CCP, don’t you take it too?

In any case, Blizzard will not have waited 13 years to take it…

Believe me. You would have done that in the continuity of the 2003-2009 period, rather than so brutally breaking everything that the players had already built, you wouldn’t be here today.

Afterwards, the question that I ask myself is how will CCP be able to go about presenting this idea to all their customers, including their former customers. As I said before, the choices made by CCP over the past decade have made many of us aware that CCP was wasting precious time in this game that has finally become in no way fair.

By acting like they did, CCP stole our time!

For me, the key would be a firm commitment on the part of CCP, of non-intervention within EvE Online Classic. Without that, you might as well forget right away and wisely observe the last downtimes of this game which will remain, despite everything, forever etched in our memories, and that thanks to us…

So. Try To Fly Safe Again. Or not.

Ully Loom

49

You either pay with your wallet or with your time. Not everyone has hours and hours in which to go mining. What’s more…time spent mining is time not spent chasing PvP targets. And mining is boring !

So I have no qualms about ‘P2W’…especially as its not like I’ve spent £hundreds on my fleet. My entire fleet that includes a Tornado, Drake, 8 Gnosis, 3 Caracals…along with Moas, Thrashers, Catalysts, yada yada…is about 1.5bn worth, which is really only about £20.

50

PLEX has been in the game for over 10 years.

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51

“Market PvP” isn’t PvP. It’s simply competition for resources or relative advantage, which is common to virtually all MMOs. If you start defining PvP as “being in competition with other players” then everything becomes PvP and the term is meaningless.

EVE’s economy is neither unique nor special - it simply has a quantitatively larger focus on crafting than most MMO’s which leads to a larger presence of the player marketplace in carrying out standard gameplay activity.

A number of EVE players have some very strange ideas of what the economy in other games is like or that “EVE industry and markets” are somehow worlds different than other MMOs.

I’ve played over a dozen major MMORPGs (the category EVE is in) across several decades. With one semi-exception (a MMORPG that tried to go ‘inventoryless’), they all featured robust crafting systems and marketplaces, just like EVE. They pretty much all have the best rarest items drop from PvE grinds - just like EVE. And while you can outfit your character with mission rewards and PvE drops as you go along, the majority of players head to the market and buy their primary supplies - just like EVE.

One visible difference is that EVE doesn’t have NPC vendors for many standard items like fuel or ammo. This isn’t a qualitative difference, in reality it just boils down to “EVE- where the crafting grind gets real”.

In general when people talk about PvP, they’re referring to meaningful player vs. player combat. It’s only in EVE that I see a small group of players consistently trying to redefine PvP as “any kind of competition between players”. They’ll weasel and waffle and hairsplit endlessly to pretend that one player interacting with another player in ‘activity X’ is PvP, “because there’s a player on either side of the transaction”. Apparently they feel a need to pretend they’re “engaged in PvP” even when they’re docked up and checking their BPOs.

No. Competition isn’t PvP, mining isn’t PvP, crafting/industry isn’t PvP, cosmetics aren’t PvP, logging in isn’t PvP.

Meaningful combat between players is PvP.

And it’s when you stop living in denial about what PvP is and really look at EVE, that you realize just how badly CCP is doing at designing this “PvP-focused” game.

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52

Give him his separate pve server. He just can’t transfer to the pvp server. He can mine in safety and sell to other miners who only lose ships to npc’s. See what happens to prices with a low demand of products. :roll_eyes:

Same ol song and dance.

53

Without the risk from non-consensual PvP, activities become tedious and lose value. And if their rewards cross over with other activities they reduce the value of both.

The market becomes saturated and industry trivial.

Players have less agency and interaction.

Eve ‘stops working’ because it is meant to be ALL of these. It is meant to balance risk with reward. It is meant to have an engaging and in depth industry and market. It is meant to give you various options on how to compete and interact with other players.

Whilst the servers may still run, what you are left with is something not-eve.

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54

I suggest you spend a few minutes looking at the killmails roll into zkillboard, it always amazes me how many faction battleships appear in the feed. PvP in EVE is not even close to “most PvP in-game happens in frigates”

55

Agree on more reasons to PvP. We need them!
Disagree on passive income streams. Active moon mining did some great things for the game. More ships in space, made other play styles and activities valuable, brought more players out of high sec.

You are right that it removed a major conflict driver and that needs to be addressed, but lets not address it by moving backward. We just need something new to fight over without going back to passive income generation.

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56

In a way they kurb the amount of battleships being freely used for pvp after adding the additional materials to manufacture them.
/Looking at “Top Groups” in the 3 types of Space, (Didn’t look at W-Space)

57

They absolutely would be happy on a PvE server. It’s just that their happiness would last about 2-3 months, before they’d quit, never to return again. It would be an environment fed solely by extreme turnover. CCP would probably be able to squeeze 2-3 years’ worth of juice out of it before “new EVE” would completely fade into obscurity as a generic and forgettable 6/10 casual MMO title.

But like I said in the C&P thread, these people don’t care. They just want to get that 2-3 months out of the game, and that’s it. That the game would become a hollow shell of itself and not survive the transition is none of their concern, because they’d be gone way before that happened. Kind of like leaving your trash all over your movie theater seat after you leave; it’s the other guy’s problem, not yours. ■■■■ you, got mine.

Also, the OP is quite literally asking for player pirates to be replaced by NPCs. But why? Why implement NPC replacements if we already have player pirates? It doesn’t make any sense, until you realize that it’s just a red herring, and that they’ll be asking for that to be nerfed as well after the initial phase of the loss removal process goes through.

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58

AAXSAti

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59

The need to defend it, or lose it, is what made Passive moon mining more active than it sounds.
Difference with other wealth makers is that it wasn’t a total grind and that’s what was so great about it.

If we really want to reduce passive income, Planetary Interaction would need to go first. The only brake on multi-accounting the hell out of it in combination with a SP-farming, is that it’s mind numbing busy work through a limited interface and most players have their limits.

Semi-active wealth generation in space isn’t necessarily better for the game either, see mining: almost as bad a chore as PI and even more simplistic. That activity isn’t even worth fighting over in space; I’m just glad some other poor sucker has to do it rather than me.

60

Why not make PI more active instead of removing it?

If planetary industry is deemed ‘too passive’ there are better ways to deal with it than to remove it. Instead, it could be changed to require the players to be in space more often to deal with it. For example, I think it’s strange we don’t even need to fly up to a planet to plant a command center, which can be done from anywhere in the system on tether instead. Change that. Resetting the extractors? Why not require us to be undocked and within system as well. Hauling the goods from the customs office? Halve the size and we’ll be in space twice as often.

PI can be made a lot more active with a few changes that don’t change the core PI gameplay.

And yea, you may find the core PI gameplay 'mind numbing busy work … and most players have their limits, but that’s the same I find about mining. I rather like PI though.

1 Like