Caracal Navy needs a rework

Seriously it is so bad. It’s niche should be applying damage but the bonus is quite low at 5%, and the Osprey Navy actually will apply better since it has one more med slot for a web / TP.

Seriously I really fail to see the appeal of that ship. It’s just outshined by the Osprey Navy in every way. It should gain something unique such as a resist bonus or completely change it into a turret boat. For example bonus to Medium Turret optimal range to make it a viable sniping platform which would be a stepping stone for the Eagle. Or just keep it as it is but it needs a straight up buff to be competitive with the Osprey Navy.

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IIRC, CCP Rise said 3 or 4 years ago that they were thinking about reworking the entire navy faction line. I can’t remember if Rise mentioned it, if it was a player question afterwards, or what, but I remember someone mentioning the possibility of having standings impact navy ship performance (like security status impacts concord ships). Regardless, it feels like they are trying to avoid making changes to individual navy ships because they want to rework the entire line… but they’ve put reworking the entire line on the back burner.

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That is so long ago that you could safely assume they thought about it and decided not to.

There are a number of Navy ships that could use some help. The cost to power ratio of the Navy ships compared to pirate/SoE, Trig, or T2 ship is in a fairly bad place. The navy battleships are in a pretty terrible state, though there are a handful of of the cruisers and battlecruisers that need some love, too.

I would prefer to see those ship’s power increased vice lowering their cost to make them more generally viable, though a complete overhaul to the navy rank insignia farming system for the LP store and faction warfare production would be welcome to make FW more fun and interesting (or provide some alternatives to boring and repetitive mission running, or with more player agency to get to the specific insignias that are needed).

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Many Navy ships are very good and a nice step up between T1 and T2/Pirate ships. They are very cheap compared for their price, if you pay them via Faction Warfare LP points.

Some great examples are: Slicer, Vigil Fleet Issue, Scythe Fleet Issue, Stabber Fleet Issue, etc.

This I could not agree more with, if for no better reason than the lore. The navy ships ARE the faction ships for the 4 main empires. It makes zero sense that they would be as expensive and yet weaker across the board. How could these empires be dominant and yet their ships are so weak? Daphuq?

The entire navy line needs a rework…or the faction ships do, or both…

I would like the change mentioned above, personally—a switch to hybrid turrets and a large range bonus. I have alphas who want to participate in fleets, but while a T1 Caracal can at least touch the things a Cerberus is hitting, there’s simply no way to match the range of the Eagle. Frustrating since the HACs seem to have both range AND tank as their selling points.

navy caracal is not kinetic-locked , and out-dps the navy osprey using any ammo type . only using kinetic is the navy osprey alpha higher .
which ship is better , is situational . navy osprey is quicker with more mids and utility highs . it’s a very nice HAM platform , and can do exploration with a probe launcher in the high slot . navy cara has more buffer , more flexible for PVE , and don’t forget it was single-handedly responsible for the rapid-light launcher nerf … :laughing:

they thought about it and gave it 25 m3 drone bay and bandwidth …

Hell no! this would be a big nerf.
I do agree the bonus on missiles is not great and the reason the one I have remains packaged in the hangar.

You mean, in addition to current bonuses? Else, that would s***

The main reason for the turret idea is this:
In our alliance, we have pilots who show up for a fleet ping, find out that the fleet is based on the Eagle, and have to skip the fleet entirely. It’s bad for morale and retention of players, frankly.

Bring a Moa, you’ll blend in. But seriously, because “your” alliance uses the Eagle and you feel excluded (as an Alpha I guess, else you would use the Eagle too if that was a requirement), then the CNI has to use turrets, and screw you fleets who use the CNI for it’s missile? Can your alliance be more inclusive? Caldari are supposed to be proficient with missiles, it makes sense that their navy line use missiles. As for turrets and optimal range and falloff, can “you” consider the Ferox or the Brutix? (T1, accessible to Alpha, uses Medium Hybrid, have the bonus you need, buffy enough to compete with Navy cruisers?)

I was talking more specifically about PVP because well it’s the PvP Ships & Modules forum section, plus I can’t see why anyone in their right mind would use a Caracal Navy for PVE. If you have skills in missiles then why not use a Drake which is CHEAPER than the Caracal Navy and very usable with low skill poitns. If we’re talking about cruisers specifically for the Abyss then why not just wait a bit until you can afford a Gila which will take you all the way up from T2 to T6.

Really there is no reason to use a Caracal Navy for PVE at all. If you want to use HM / HAMs you’ll be better off with a Drake. If you want to use Rapid Lights a standard Caracal would do fine if not better since it will have more range.

And in PVP the ship is just straight up bad. Osprey Navy outshines it in every way.

The same logic goes to you. Bring a Ferox if you want turrets sniper.

Are you talking to me ?

I was only suggesting a turret rework as an option. It can very well be a missile ship but it needs something more than those weak bonuses and average fitting slots.

Of course I was talking to you since you brought the turrets suggestion in the first place. Just wasn’t sure if you were the same person as Xu’lyann since she said the “the main reason for the turret idea is…” as if she was explaining what “you” had in mind.

A turret snipper would make it even weaker. The CNI is an evolution of the Caracal, missiles is the logical weapon option for it… I do agree the bonus are “meh”, and pretty much just a caracal with 6 launcher instead of 5 and 5 small drones instead of 2. Not worth the 50mil difference to me. But turning it into a turret boat, please no. And if you think the Osprey Navy is so Good at PVP, then there is your ship.

But that’s exactly what I mean, there is no reason to fly a Caracal Navy instead of an Osprey Navy.

When you look at for example Stabber vs Rupture, both use the same weapon system but both have different uses. Rupture is tankier since it has one more low slot and deals more damage, Stabber has more speed and range. So in the end 2 ships that look quite similar at first glance are used very differently ; usually Stabbers are shield tanked and used as a kiter or a fast heavy tackler, and Ruptures are most likely used as armor brawlers.

But when you look at the ONI & Caracal Navy, the amount of times you’d want to use a Caracal Navy instead of an Osprey Navy is basically non existent. Which is just bad design. It should get something more unique like what I also suggested a resist bonus for example. It makes sense cause it is a bonus that you can find on the Caldari ship line. It also would give the Caracal Navy a better niche : it would be tankier and with application bonus, it would be a nice little brawly ship that can use HAMs effectively.

Also i’m not sure why you’d think Turrets would automatically make the ship weaker, they are just a different weapon system with different perks.

That I can agree with. Like I said, I agree the current bonus are “meh”, and I’m in favor of what fits Caldari tech. Shield resist fits the Caldari.

A turret boat, no thanks, especially with range/falloff (the other part of the suggestion regarding turrets as a snipper platform, which makes no sense with your brawler ship suggestion for turrets.

Besides, missiles can also have decent range with proper bonus (the Caracal has it, the CNI doesn’t)

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