CCP on Declarations of War Podcast

I was happy to hear that comment on BS likely being buffed due to the additional cost items. Good move. Start listening 1h17m. I think it was said at 1h19m, but context needed.

BS I see as too weak and have thought that for a long time.

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It’s hard/impossible to say “this number should be equal to X” and that’s healthy.

Going through the MER and studying trends can help define “healthy” relationships and boundaries.

Production outpacing Destruction, may be because of stockpiling of expensive ships but fighting with cheap ships.

We should also strive for a healthy distribution of activities, Looting vs Bounty vs Mining and their geographical locations.

A strong economy is built on solid foundations, previously we mostly had bounty and ore mining, but now PI and Gas play a bigger part. Its the same with Fishing/Tourism real world analogies. Bounties are no longer dominant compared to Looting (in ISK market value) and this needs to be balanced carefully. but also from a “per character” perspective.

Diversity is key, resource, activity, ships flown. Everytime an economy starts relying to heavily on one thing, it is at risk of breaking down.

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Awesome elaboration, thank you for the response!

Your final quote here leads me not to a question but a humble request: at the moment it is very hard to see “diversity in ships flown” from the MER, while diversity in other metrics are more readily available and transparent for the player base to see. If that could be rectified, even with an unrelated but correlated metric – “ship types destroyed in month of X” like “[blah] number of Exhumers destroyed in X”, for example – that would help in transparency and connecting the dots between the philosophy and effects.

As a software engineer myself I understand engineering time is not free, so I understand there is real cost – among other reasons – to reject this request.

(I am aware of zKill but its data is incomplete compared to the data available to CCP Games)

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This is something missed and appreciated from the Quarterly Economic Newsletter format. which ended in 2010. They were beautifully designed reports you could leave (if printed) on a coffee table, for visitors to find and make comments like: “Wow. Spaceships are Serious Business!”

(I’ve heard some scary hints about the future of the MER and hope it’s going to be improved more in the direction of the detail-packed quarterlies, with editorial commentary by Game Designers, as opposed to eliminated entirely.)

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the new MER for december is updated with the mining details w/residue…

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Yeah, we definitely read them and take notes, but don’t necessarily comment on every post.

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Good that you bring this example. Did you know that tourism kills the fishing industry because of pollution, overcrowding and habitat destruction? Unintentionally, I am sure, this fits your idea of a healthy economy really well when it comes to gas.

By introducing K-space gas to the ship production, you ruined k-space gas mining income because you killed the ship production that needs the gas. Due to massive oversupply and extreme underutilization due to lossful production, gas mining is now worth less than it was before. Had you only used the wormhole gas, which is already and only used for ship production, in these components, a ton of issues could have been prevented. And you would not have interconnected two industries together (ship building and booster production) that are fundamentally incompatible due to how their markets work.

As said, tourism kills fishing industries. Think about it.

REDNES

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Was getting rid of player stockpiles a goal? Why?

But hoarding is actually a totally normal and adaptive behavior that kicks in any time there is an uneven supply of resources. Everyone hoards, even during the best of times, without even thinking about it. People like to have beans in the pantry, money in savings and chocolates hidden from the children. These are all hoards.

rpg-meme

Why not make more ways for players to spend resources you’d rather them not hoard? Fun products and services, vanity items. Mining missions requesting normal ores not some special magic ones could take some excesses off of the markets, cut into stockpiles, if rewards were right.


Was making players fight in cheap ships a goal? Why?

Like @Kenneth_Feld Feld said after industry changes ''some ships are more expensive now, but Caracals and Feroxes became a bit cheaper" or close to this.

We supposed to go back to ships we used as newbies? What about progression. How do you justify ships going x3-4+ in price? How is the game healthier if people stop playing? You didnt want those players?


Was there ever a time Production did not outpace Destruction?

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Its different people in different security space doing production and destruction. You want former lose stockpiles and latter only use cheap ships? Equality in the name of equality? No carrot, all stick? Fun out of the game?

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This year both some Citadel balance changes and Dynamic Resources are expected to appear. I hope the new balance will not treat NPC Null the same as SOV Null.

NPC Null can’t support the same number of players due to no iHub options to improve the space. NPC Null is a traditional stepping stone for groups unwinding from the intensity of a SOV adventure, or getting ready to have their first.

NPC null sec can support an infinite number of characters, unlike sov null sec. You don’t rat in anomalies in NPC null sec. You run missions. Missions don’t need ihubs, they are available indiscriminately and they are very engaging and entertaining content. Even the rewards scale well because you can just use pirate ship fleets yourself if you have to get rid of LP. And they are not the only rewards from pirate missions. Not to mention that you have to travel to get to some mission locations (unless you intelligently prepare your activities), so there’s even regular ship travel between systems that hostiles can intercept. And the agents are placed in stations, which have fixed locations, cannot be corrupted, can be used for interference, and allow people to live and stage out of at will.

God I hope that CCP never touches that space. It’s one of the few remaining intact and enjoyable features of EVE. I should have probably not even talked about how positive of an experience NPC null sec really is and just flagged your post so that it disappears…

REDNES

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I am not asking for changes to NPC null, I am asking CCP to consider the differences of NPC Null vs Sov Null, when making any changes to CItadels or the new Dynamic Resource system.

Some players can’t stand endlessly running missions :wink: Miners wanna mine, ratters wanna rat, explorers wanna roam for the next hack can full of loot - etc. Conditions for mining and ratting can’t be improved in NPC null, limiting the number of players who might live there to do those other things.

Miners find belts in NPC null sec and Ore anomalies are there as well (remember how CCP introduced ore anoms to every single system in K-space) … Well, except for Curse because CCP removed belts in Curse and Great Wildlands. I wonder what Rattati has to say about this since they have not been returned, leaving all that space out of the “ore have been doubled everywhere” craze. And you have tons of moons, too. And mining missions for when you are sick of standard ores and just want to mine something else entirely.

Ratters can rat and get a crap load of loot. More loot in fact than from anoms because so many more people can run missions and you get interesting loot, too, from a variety of factions instead of just one.

As said before, NPC null sec is superior to Sov Null sec in these regards. :wink:

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I disagree that NPC null is superior; iHubs in Sov Null enable ENORMOUS ore anoms, and can buff ratting with endless respawning of those higher-level anoms.

I have heard rumors that some people in deep Sov Null run ratting anoms in (super)carriers! So many sites can appear in an iHub boosted system, that high-end ratters rig them with hyperspatials so they can get to the next site faster, while grumbling about their isk/hr. This kind of talk and expense for a “ratting ship” is unfathomable to my small provincial NPC Null brain.

Small & medium anoms were put in every NS system to sort of replace the removed belts containing ores which were moved to HS and LS. But belts with Arkanor & Mercoxit still exist in the lowest TrueSec systems, where they were found before.

These high tier anoms have long respawn times and only allow some 4-5 people to really use them effectively. Missions have no respawn timer and give potentially more money than any Sanctum. And they do that consistently. Not to mention that only a handful of anoms are actually worth running and they depend entirely on the sec level of the system. While CCP introduced Havens and Sanctums to low sec level systems years ago, they only get 1 or 2, not 10 each like in -1.0 systems. Most NPC null sec has a sec level or 0.0 to maybe -0.2. Ihubs there would only spawn utter trash like Hidden Rally Points or Hidden Dens and not the Havens that you crave. There would also be a few unmodified Rally Points but they also have a long respawn timer.

The rumors are right. But you know what? Only 1 (ONE) super can rat in these systems because it is so fast and the anoms take time to respawn. You can have 50 people run missions in systems like G-0 or H-ADOC or OSY or HM-UVD or G-ME2K and so on, and they have the same kind of income. Consistently.

These tiny anoms cannot replace a system with multiple belts and they can for sure not compensate the loss of all these normal belts when other regions still have them.
It is true that Ihubs spawn Collossals and Enormous ore anoms, but the Ihubs come with a ton of downsides as a price. None of the rewards are a worthy compensation for these downsides.

REDNES

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About 1 hr in there’s talk about a recent event site, think it was a Null Sec Hacking site, that had a mine field in it which required players to manually navigate their ship through it in order to get to the loot can. The discussion made it seem like this was something new.

The Level 3 Guristas Epic Arc has a mission that’s similar with a mine field around an acceleration gate. The player has to manually navigate through the mine field in order to access the gate which leads to the final room for the mission objective.

It was a very cool mission, definitely different and fun to complete. Out of all the missions in that Epic Arc, that mission is the main thing I remember. Whether in event, exploration or mission sites, it would be cool to have more like that.

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We are currently working on better logging due to Quasar, https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-quasar/, allowing much more granularity for analytical events.

Same goes with our ship data warehouse.

I think there is a lot potential in both using some of that data inside the client (popular fittings) and as well having fun with digging into the data for players.

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Happy to hear this, and thanks once again for the reply.

Good luck with the Quasar platform, the (invisible to us players) slow migration of services, etc. Reading between the lines, it sounds like the platform gives new services built on it access to async logging capabilities that wouldn’t have been possible with Python’s GIL and the traditional Tranquility server. Naturally, the development of a framework for structured logs processing follows suit. :stuck_out_tongue:

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They could try reading my open forum post that has been on page 1/2 everyday since 2019. That might just give them some insights.

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Maybe somebody with good Catalyst skills should gank these Abyss runners to provide some risk…

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It’s the right feature, for the wrong version of the game.

If CCP had improved the game properly and having a more dynamic and active gameplay, sure! nuke the local chat into oblivion for good.

But when they came with stupid observatories (stealth) and NPCs to change solar systems I gave up.

I admire the people still believing. Keep going!