SP farmers are the main consumers of PLEX, yes. How does that contradict yellow parasol’s deductions?
yellow parasol has deduced that people who sub for plex are bad for the game and cost ccp money and reduce their income
while also asserting that increased demand for plex incentivizes plex sales which you agreed with
you then show how sp farmers who pay with plex are increasing demand for plex which drives plex sales by your own and yellow parasol own assertions
If that is everything you were able to comprehend, then I’d say there’s no point trying to discuss anything with you.
i’ll opt out after this one.
no where did i say it reduces income, no where did i say they’re bad. i said it provides less income. not the same, words and their meanings matter. it would help everyone, including yourself, if you didn’t invent things no one said or potentially meant.
have a nice day. in six months this whole topic will look completely different.
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funny
you both became very dismissive suddenly
well maybe my choice of words was bad
but neither of you have contested my point
yellow parasol thinks plex subs are the worst option for ccp
while linus shows that plex subs actually generate huge amounts of demand for plex
which you both agree generates income for ccp
in some cases one person with 100 accounts might be generating 550 times as much demand as a single active player
i wonder how many subbed players spend 275000 plex per month in the nes store
You are nitty-picking statements that suit your agenda while leaving out everything in between that doesn’t support your viewpoint, making any intellectual discussion with you pointless.
When it comes to costs in relation to income (his opinion, not mine).
Which is only needed as long as all other purposes of Plex don’t create enough demand for Plex prices further rising.
Those may be interesting figures, but not really the important ones. We simply don’t know how many there are and how many “normal” Plex subsribers. The farmers could make up 5% or maybe even 40%, we just don’t know.
We also don’t know if game time is responsible for 90% of Plex consumption or maybe only 50%. We don’t even know if the number of Plex consumed is higher than the number of new Plex entering the market (although, it’s very likely) or if it’s just a market thing.
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what agenda is that
the only agenda i have is making a point that assumptions are meaningless without data
and often meaningless even when there is data
Good to know that you consider science meaningless.
ah crap i think i broke it
I didn’t mean to be dismissive in a personal way. Only regarding the topic. You make it hard talking about things, intentionally or not, and there’s just no point going on anyway.
I’ve tried to cover everything observable and logically deductible, so the last thing for me to do is, literally as i always do, is to wait a few months for the meta to change and then to deal with the next generation of people understanding the new norm better than the older generation.
Well, it would be, but this time is different. vOv anyhow, i gotta rest and watch bitcoins.
im not sure but i just tend to pick holes in arguments when i see them
i dont really take sides i just think flawed arguments obscure the truth of a situation
by picking holes in arguments you get closer to revealing the truth of the reality
One thing is for certain, yellow and Linus have no idea how any of this works.
Let’s say there are 100 people currently plexing their accounts each month. Those 100 people drive demand for plex at a rate of 50000 per month. Those 50000 need to come from suppliers, which translates to ~$2000 per month revenue.
Now if the price of plex increases beyond those players ability or willingness to afford, let’s say 3/4 of them switch back to a payed account while the rest drop to alpha (which is being generous)
at 15 a month subs is $1115 per month in sub revenue, which means they now need to engineer another $885 in plex sales. Or 22125 plex, ~300 per remaining payed account, in one time sales, every month. Just to break even financially.
In order to simply maintain the previous plex demand in order to prevent prices from dropping (which in this scenario is is ccps end goal to see plex prices rise and force people over to subs remember) they now need to somehow convince every one of the remaining players who previously payed with plex, to also drop an additional ~667 plex, every single month players who had stopped using plex for their accounts because of their high price mind you. On one time purchases.
Yes, if they can somehow convince them to do that, every single month. Then they will see a substantial profit increase, and be able to maintain the demand for plex to keep the prices high. And that is without even taking into account other factors like, higher plex prices in game driving the supply side of the market by making it more appealing to sell plex for isk.
The suggestion that ccp is intentionally driving plex prices up in order to force players to sub, is like saying they are intentionally creating more work for themselves to make the same money they are now. And even more work for themselves (and trusting the player base to buy their pretty cosmetics) in large enough quantities for the plan to work. While at the same time actively reducing the number of plex sinks in game (character transfers and plex vault) for… some reason…
When the alternative is quite simple. CCP has made plex services more accessible, this means more players are using them. Which has driven up demand, which has driven up the price. This was unavoidable, but steps where taken to mitigate it by reducing plex sinks.
or, to put it more simply, IF ccp is intentionally trying to drive players who plex their accounts out of the market, for every 100 players they do that too. even assuming a rather generous 75% of them switch over to subbing their accounts, ccp needs to convince 75 players per month, to spend over 300 plex to make up lost revenue, or 600 per month in order to maintain the high prices (that ccp apparently wants) every single month, on single sale vanity items rather than a recurring monthly service.
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There is a point where the amount of time required for the average EVE player to pay in-game to PLEX their account will no longer be commensurate with their IRL schedule, causing player fall-off or players to simply go Alpha. The former is the worst case scenario, but the latter isn’t much better either due to how limited Alphas are.
You can look at some statistics here for player activity over time: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
There was a jump from 32k to 51k with the introduction of alphas, and then a downward spiral back down to 32k during the july-august period when PLEX hit 1.7+ bil per month.
That is much worse than you think. Because that is NOT the same majority of 32k players that PLEX like it was pre-alpha. That is a mix of 32k players that PLEX with all the other ones that stay Alpha. Naturally, not all the original ~19k Alphas are still playing at this point, but you can assume there there are many more Alphas now than there were Trials before.
Let me ask you: What can an Alpha do for EVE’s economy? Not much. Definitely nowhere near as much as an Omega account. They won’t buy your PLEX or Injectors, and they certainly won’t buy much of anything else you care to produce or trade. If you are into T2 production, PLEX flipping, Skill goo’ing, or whatever, I’m sad to say you are losing the entirety of your high-sec market, and the soaring prices in your goods that you are experiencing now is what economists call a “bubble”. Have fun while it lasts.
However, if you think CCP will save the economy from collapse, there isn’t really a way to do that other than to change the way PLEX exchanges from hand to hand. The underlying problem with PLEX is that it is being amassed by players for market manipulation, and players are generally not economists nor do they need to care about the state of EVE’s economy. And let’s face it, economists in the real world barely consider macroeconomics in terms of the reverberations of their actions at the micro scale, so why should EVE players care about that in a video game economy?
The fact that PLEX is allowed to be amassed in the hands of the few is the heart of the problem, and to fix it directly you would need to make PLEX something you can only trade once on purchase with IRL money. If you did this, without changing the mechanics of the “old” PLEX items that can be traded freely, the economy would eventually stabilize without punishing anyone.
I am not disagreeing that CCP impacts the plex markey. Sales they run, in the past the injection of plex, and even now with having plex drop as event rewards all impact it and are under CCP’s control.
However, Forseti Valkyrie specifically stated that CCP is meddling with the market on a daily daily basis. It was that I wanted to be enlightened about because I think it is a total life with no support to back it up.
There is really no way to determine this in a conclusive manner, IMO. CCP can do things that are very hard to spot like using a banned account to put PLEX on the market, for example.
They even can create PLEXes from thin air if they see fit and nobody will notice.
Since that is what they do when they sell them, this is obviously true.
There might be some accounting issues with this though…but I am no accountant.
Your post makes no sense…