CCP Totally Failed it's Hsec players

[Destiny_Corrupted]

There’s a lot to unpack there, but I don’t want to address the entire text wall, so I’ll select a few points I consider to be the most important.

@Shadmor_Fatbutt

an important thing to understand about my framework is that I believe that all humans deserve the same amount of respect from eachother at baseline, their actions affect other people in positive and negative ways, and nobody is immune from consequences of their actions.

This is a role-playing video game, and not real life. The requisite amount of respect that players give to each other is playing within the outlined rules of the game. Anything else is the imposition of personal moral standards that don’t belong here.

@Shadmor_Fatbutt

The system I’m describing, one where Predator/Prey relationships can exist after consent, does and can exist. Tag is a form of consensual predator prey. Hide and seek is a form of consensual predator/prey. The only difference is that we both agree on the rules of HIde and Seek and we both agree on the rules of Tag. When we don’t, and instead of tapping your victim on the shoulder and yelling “tag, your it!” you push them down into a puddle, people get into fights. I was not suggesting that consensual predator/prey behavior SHOULD exist in EVE, I was only saying that IF predator/prey gameplay exists in eve, that it should be consensual. If we both agree that it should be consensual, then the next step is thinking of a design where it could be consensual.

The games you’re describing have an entirely different framework compared to EVE. You’ve chosen simple games that have no element of risk attached to them. A more apt comparison would’ve been to compare EVE to Poker, where people wager real-life money that they can win or lose. Would you complain about a lack of respect if you lost at Poker, and had to pay your opponent? Would you request for the design of the game to be reconsidered?

Comparing EVE to tag or hide-and-seek is a very intellectually-dishonest attempt at diplomacy on your part.

@Shadmor_Fatbutt

personally? Totally depends on if there is some reward in it for me or if the act of being pursued is fun in and of itself, as it is in games like hide and seek. But your proposed pvp toggle solution has some challenges to it that i’m not sure would achieve either of our desired goals. I’m sure we could think of something better if we share the same end goals.

You’re avoiding the question.

@Shadmor_Fatbutt

I see a reaction from vocal individuals who laugh at the idea that consent to being prey is missing, and put the blame on victims for having very negative experiences in this game

Your consent to being prey is given by virtue of agreeing to the terms of service of the game before you start playing it. The game has rules that all players must follow. You give consent to the game, and not to other players.

@Shadmor_Fatbutt

The fact that you use terms like “anemic”, “terminally-enfeebled” etc suggest you consider it a moral failing of CCP to make it harder to grief players. We will not agree on this. It’s right in the word: “Griefing”, causes grief for people, and I will never be on board with that.

The gameplay being engaged in is not grief-play. It happens within the confines of the game’s rules. Labeling it as grief is something you choose to do, subjectively. You can of course believe anything you wish, but that doesn’t mean it becomes binding to everyone else.

@Shadmor_Fatbutt

Eve is NOT marketed as a hide-and-seek game. Or a predator/prey game. It is marketed as “Experience space exploration, immense PvP and PvE battles, multiple professions and activities, as well as a thriving player economy. The ever-expanding sandbox of EVE allows you to choose your own unique space adventure from countless options.”

I absolutely agree. We’ve discussed this on the forums many times. For example:

Why I dislike gankers and people opposed to ganking

This is objectively false. In fact, CCP hasn’t explicitly mentioned the game’s PvP component (outside of vague references to things like “alliance wars”) in any EVE trailers since the “play for free” trailer about seven years ago. By that time, they were already hardly mentioning EVE’s PvP heritage compared to how they were flaunting it during the first ten years. The last great PvP-centric trailer was the one for Retribution, in my opinion. None of the four current trailers on Steam mention a…

CCP has drastically changed the way they market the game over the past decade. However, they didn’t change the underlying core game mechanics to be in line with that advertising. That is very dishonest and deceptive on their part.

@Shadmor_Fatbutt

Yeah, that’s definitely an idea. sacrifice alot of amenities to move away from “the city” though, not to mention the indignation I have at being displaced and that being ‘cool’ with everyone except the displaced population. I think i’d take a totally different moral stance if our miners had actually committed some injustice and gankers were seeking frontier retribution. They didn’t. They just feel entitled to profit from mining being conducted in any hisec system.

If you’re apt to make so many real-life parallels in your arguments, perhaps you should hire a security guard for your mining operations? Real-life businesses do this despite having the legal and moral entitlement to not be robbed during regular operation, because crime is something that just happens, no matter how much you talk about that it shouldn’t. This game simulates the possibility of crime being able to happen, and you’ll have to deal with that if you want to enjoy it.