Change how tether works in highsec for suspects and outlaws

[Anderson_Geten]

@Gerard_Amatin

Sooo, a wormhole that takes actions to let one ship through and not another based on ship mass is also a character accotding to you?

Or would it perhaps be an object?

The one taking the action is the player. The WH takes no action whatsoever. The action fails if the WH limit is below the ship mass.

If the WH was taking actions, that is non global effect based on rules, then yes it would be an NPC, just like the sentries on the gates are.

[Gerard_Amatin]

And what ‘actions’ is an unmanned station taking?

It just automatically applies tether to any ship based on ACL, which fails when the ship has a weapons timer.

Sounds like an object just like a wormhole to me.

[Anderson_Geten]

@Gerard_Amatin

It just automatically applies tether to any ship based on ACL, which fails when the ship has a weapons timer.

which is an action.
Most NPC have automated (scripted) actions. Concord won’t react unless you deserve it.
Even rats can take actions that fail. Typically when you are in a marauder and bastion, the moment you exit the rats won’t use any ewar because it failed once.

@Gerard_Amatin

Sounds like an object just like a wormhole to me.

WH don’t tether you. They actually don’t interact wit you. That’s the only important part : do they take actions ? If no, they are not characters in the game sense.

Example, a POS IS an NPC entity, even though you can control it and you installed it - because it can shoot you even when you are the only other player in the system, therefore taking actions without a player control.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Anderson_Geten

Example, a POS IS an NPC entity, even though you can control it and you installed it - because it can shoot you even when you are the only other player in the system, therefore taking actions without a player control.

Yep, POS takes actions and can be considered an NPC entity.

An unmanned upwell structure takes no actions and is as much an NPC as an abandoned ship.

[Astelon_Bheskagor]

With the difference that a structure belongs to a player or group of players , that get to define the ACL , while a wormhole doesn’t, as you can’t have sov there in it. You can live in it but can’t claim it, pretty much as an NPC station.
Players get to choose by ACL who gets or who does not get tether , while a wormhole gets to choose who passes through it or not just by following an automated algorithm coded in the game.

[Anderson_Geten]

@Gerard_Amatin

An unmanned upwell structure takes no actions

But yes you just gave one : tethering is an action. Also pointing baddies is another one.
But you just need one (the tethering) to say that structures ARE NPCs.

[Gerard_Amatin]

Tether is a passive effect applied on ships that have certain conditions (in range, on ACL, no combat timer…).

Would you call a metaliminal storm an NPC? It also has ‘actions’ in the form of a passive effect applied to certain ships.

[Brisc_Rubal]

It never ceases to amaze me how heated these highsec mechanics threads get.

[Gerard_Amatin]

Oh was this about high sec mechanics?

I was having a discussion about definitions with Anderson.

[Anderson_Geten]

@Gerard_Amatin

Tether is a passive effect applied on ships that have certain conditions

tether is a targeted effect applied selectively on targets in range that belong to the ACL. So is warp disrupting from the structure (which is another action).
“passive effect” means nothing.

@Gerard_Amatin

It also has ‘actions’ in the form of a passive effect applied to certain ships.

No it has no action. It has an uncontrolled system-wide effect, which is not an action. This is as much an action as your overdrive or nanofiber effect on your ship, which I already told you.

[Gerard_Amatin]

Let’s say an unmanned upwell station is an NPC, now what?

[Astelon_Bheskagor]

@Anderson_Geten

tether is a targeted effect applied selectively on targets in range that belong to the ACL.

IF an ACL is setup , if not it applies by default to anyone.

[Anderson_Geten]

@Gerard_Amatin

Let’s say an unmanned upwell station is an NPC, now what?

Nothing, that was just your claim it was not so I corrected you.

@Gerard_Amatin

Tethering is not an NPC mechanism.

[Gerard_Amatin]

Okay, then let’s stop this useless discussion again based on the assumption that I agree that an unmanned upwell station is an NPC.

[Mkikaden_Tiragen]

@Anderson_Geten

Nothing, that was just your claim it was not so I corrected you.

The whole conversation is off-topic because this isn’t relevant to the thread or the arguments made. So please stop nitpicking people needlessly and derailing the thread!

[Anderson_Geten]

@Mkikaden_Tiragen

So please stop nitpicking people needlessly and derailing the thread!

it would be nitpicking if it was not relevant. Actually it was part of his argument against mine, as you could have noticed if you checked your facts before posting.

So please stop claiming false facts needlessly and making personal attacks.

[Mkikaden_Tiragen]

I’m the one who made the initial statement about NPCs that you challenged with a nitpick about whether or not upwells count as NPCs.

Fun fact: whether you would consider them an NPC or not isn’t relevant to the intent of my post, which was whether or not NPC faction entities should have anything to do with the abilities of structures owned by players.

[Anderson_Geten]

@Mkikaden_Tiragen

I’m the one who made the initial statement about NPCs

I don’t care.
Again : I was answering HIM to HIS argument. Not to yours

So no, YOU are derailing because you are misunderstanding the discussion.

His first answer on this topic was

@Gerard_Amatin

But tether is not NPC protection, it specifically is player protection as no NPC stations provide tether.

[Mkikaden_Tiragen]

He and I made the same argument. It doesn’t matter which if us you responded to most recently - it was still a pointless argument as it isn’t relevant to the topic.

Stop being pedantic and derailing threads with non-relevant criticism of how other people apply terms that may mean something different to them than you simply because language is nuanced and context matters to meaning.

[Anderson_Geten]

@Mkikaden_Tiragen

It doesn’t matter which if us you responded to most recently - it was still a pointless argument as it isn’t relevant to the topic.

No it was the basis of his argument.

Just because it was not of yours, is irrelevant. Again, you are derailing the thread with false facts and personal attacks.

@Mkikaden_Tiragen

with non-relevant criticism of how other people apply terms that may mean something different to them than you simply because language is nuanced and context matters to meaning.

Stop saying that a potato is a tomato and I will stop saying that you are a vegetable.

Those last posts of yours are just trolls trying to derail the thread more than it already was. They are just filled with irrelevant judgement on how people should behave, that is personal attacks, and don’t even pretend to be on topic.