CODE. Bowheads are useless in Hisec

Communications Center General Discussion
61

I disagree, its a transport ship, not a command ship. A professional hauling outfit with lots of bowheads can however assign a couple of accounts to the task of escorting through chokes, and then the rest of the time the ships probably need to be solo to make it worthwhile.

Issues there are of course that not enough bowheads die in chokes to make it an imperative for potential customers to use a pro hauler and not buy the bowhead themselves, and the business is a bit peaky because of incursion cycling, which might make it hard to have a corporation of lots of people be able to do this as an effective income.

62

Neither did orca had reps, boosts and bonus mining and damage dealing drones at some point but gain it for massive boost in ship usability what i proposed wouldn’t change ship role at all just enhance it if pilot is an active one.

My proposition doesn’t deal with theory crafting potential scenarios if “bowhead dies enough business will emerge in choke points” it affect all equally pro, amateur industrial or logistic oriented pilots it make ship better so more ppl use it.

1 Like
63

That was because the orca was capable of performing its original role sitting at a death star or a dick star, which most of us recognize was contrary to good role design because the player inside it could do so with no input for hours on end.

The bowhead on the other hand was designed later, with an easier to design for role, and fits it very well, however as we’ve discovered, the maximum potential reward for using it has some risks, and the mitigation for those risks has some scale of economies which favour groups of people working together, and individuals have to do their sums more carefully, all of which sounds like pretty good design to me.

It probably doesn’t need a buff.

2 Likes
64

How cryptic.

I dont care about your parrotted ancient nonsense that PVP is killing the game.

Its boring and old.

And clearly untrue.

1 Like
65

All of offgid booster could be used this way after changes it was matter of dev time for rorq and orca to loose their offgrid ability and they did when they were ready.

Orca can boost it can mine and do combat and do pve,pvp haul ore haul ships remote boost local rep huge tank ship refits …that is not command ship that is alot of other ships ship and thats fine…and

…Bowhead can haul ships and be used as punching bag and if it get enhanced in a role it already fill its gonna be op?..really

mhm …yeah no,not to mention that role it do is by my needs insufficient it should be able to pull at least two more BS size hulls but that’s just me.

1 Like
66

That I can agree with.

2 Likes
67

Well i got a response of a GM and it was as i thought deliberately pulling concord to increase there response time is considered an exploit.

BTW it looks like we have had our wires crossed here, as in my original quote of memphis_baas, that you quoted. I was referring to gankers pulling concord away from a gate they were already on to delay their response to a new gank on the same gate.

1 Like
68

Pulling CONCORD away from the gate by committing a criminal act elsewhere in a system is not an exploit.

Gankers do it literally dozens of times everyday (see: https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99002775/reset/group/237/losses/) to move CONCORD off gates or belts so they are in a better position to gank a target and not have CONCORD insta-respond. I’ve personally done it hundreds of times on this character alone.

The confusion comes from that poorly worded exploit notice which uses ‘delay’ in an ambiguous way and why the GM answered you that way. If you do find some way to delay the CONCORD response, that is indeed an exploit and the GM is correct, but if you just move CONCORD somewhere else in system so it responds in a normal fashion from there, that is perfectly fine and done routinely as detailed in those killboard links above.

The ‘normal’ CONCORD response times are described here:

http://blog.beyondreality.se/TTK-CONCORD

CONCORD has been coded to respond with different times depending on where/if it has been spawned in the system. As long as you don’t use some method to increase those times beyond what was intended, AKA delay CONCORD, you are fine. If you just reposition them off a gate so the respond in their intended time that happens to be slower, you are golden. It’s also fine to defensively spawn them into a mining belt so they respond faster if a criminal act occurs with 150km of them.

I’m not trying to be pedantic or rule lawyering here and you are free to believe whatever you want. That exploit warning was issued to address a real exploit where hundreds of empty ships were deployed on a grid to confuse and delay CONCORD which would shoot the empty ships first before getting around to the criminal thus significantly delaying their response time, but in typical CCP fashion it was broadly worded to cover any other innovations which might delay CONCORD from responding in their intended time and has caused no end of confusion since.

I assure you though that it is standard operating procedure for almost every ganker to reposition CONCORD somewhere else (usually by ‘pulling’ CONCORD which is undocking from a station in a Corvette while still having a criminal timer) after they commit a criminal act so CONCORD has to travel and takes longer to respond to their next gank. No one gets sanctioned for that because CONCORD isn’t being delayed - they arrive exactly when they are suppose to.

9 Likes
69

i am uselessly bookmarking your great post for the next guy who asks this. not that it’ll help.

1 Like
70

you can only move your own spawn , not someone else’s . they may pull their own spawn , but his defensive spawn can’t be moved by the gankers .

1 Like
71

I’ll take the word of a GM over a ganker that admits to gaming the system anyday.

1 Like
72

There’s none so blind as those who will not see…

I’ve provided you a linked, GM explanation of what is allowed, a historic explanation of why that exploit notification was made, a verifiable link to the killboards that show players still move CONCORD around on a daily basis with no sanction, and a detailed study of the CONCORD mechanics by one of the most formidable forum personalities of yesteryear, Tippia. You are free to disregard all that, but I am satisfied that if you tire of wallowing in your own ignorance that I have left sufficient bread crumbs to set you on the path to understanding.

7 Likes
73

This is also wrong. When you engage in a criminal act, you will move the closest CONCORD spawn to you, whether you created it or not. Perhaps the clearest explanation of this comes from the Saviour of Highsec, James 315 himself:

Ganking 101: Concord Manipulation
THE 50% BONUS

In an earlier post, I demonstrated how deliberately spawning multiple Concord squads at a random planet in Kamio increased our gank squad’s attack potential by 50%. Unless you happen to have a lot of extra people in your fleet, the 50% will make the difference between success and failure.

Here’s the quick summary, in case you missed it: If there’s no Concord in system, Concord will spawn next to the ganker. In a 0.7 system like Kamio, that takes about 12 seconds. If Concord is already in system (for example, at an asteroid belt), Concord will warp to the ganker. That takes about 18 seconds. For those of you who get chased by faction police, it still benefits you if Concord’s already in system, since faction police takes longer than 12 seconds to respond.

Lesson One: Before going on a ganking run, get Concord to spawn. Don’t be lazy! If you’re willing to spend training time and isk to increase your DPS by various percentages, surely spawning Concord is worth the 50% bonus you get.

Each Concord squad can only attack one ganker at a time. If multiple gankers shoot a Mackinaw simultaneously, additional Concord squads will either spawn in or move from elsewhere in the system. So if there are two Concord squads in the system and your fleet has five gankers, two gankers will get stopped in 18 seconds, and the other three gankers will get stopped in 12 seconds.

Lesson Two: Spawn as many Concord squads as you have gankers in your fleet. That way, your whole fleet gets the 50% bonus.

Spawning Concord is easy, and they generally stay in system until the next downtime. Get your fleet into rookie ships (or any cheap ship with a gun) and have them fire on a secure container or something else that doesn’t belong to them. Do it simultaneously, and you’ll have a Concord squad spawned in for each of you. This will also draw away any Concord that may be loitering in the ice field.

RELOCATING CONCORD

Concord has a range of 150km. If they’re already in the ice field and you attack a Mackinaw within 150km, they will stop you instantly. But if Concord is 150km or more away, they may as well be on the moon. They’ll take the entire 18 seconds to respond. Most miners are unaware of this, so when they see umpteen Concord ships in the ice field, they’ll assume they’re safe. But if Concord is 150km away, the miner is actually less safe than if no Concord were in the system.

Lesson Three: It’s better to attack miners on either extreme of the ice field, because afterward Concord won’t be protecting miners on the opposite end. You won’t even need to reposition Concord!

What if Concord has one or more squads sitting in the middle of the ice field? You can attack a miner in one of the asteroid belts, but there won’t always be a target there. It’s time to move Concord. This can be done in a similar manner to spawning Concord: Find a remote location and have your fleet move there in rookie ships to shoot something that doesn’t belong to you.

There’s an important note, however: When you commit a crime, the nearest Concord in the system is the one that gets drawn away. You’ll need to commit the crime in a location nearer to the ice field than to the location of any other Concord who may be in system. Fear not! No matter how awkwardly Concord is positioned, it’s always possible to create bookmarks between the planet and the ice field such that your crime is committed closer to the ice field than to any other Concord-guarded location.

Lesson Four: Clear Concord from the ice field (or any other target area) by simultaneously suiciding in a location nearer to the Concord you want to move.

One easy way to clear Concord right after the attack is to undock your fleet in rookie ships while they still have the 15 minute aggression timer. Undock simultaneously and wait for Concord to arrive. You don’t need to shoot at anything; Concord will arrive to attack any ship you undock with during the 15 minute timer. This will not work if there are additional Concord squads patrolling an area closer to the station than the ice field is.

Lesson Five: Instantly clear Concord after an attack by simultaneously undocking your fleet in rookie ships.

  • Rookie Ship Protip: If you have no other ships in your ship hangar, a rookie ship will appear when you dock in your pod. A rookie ship will not appear if you’ve got a bunch of extra Catalysts sitting in station. You can trick the station into giving you a free rookie ship anyway: Contract your ships to yourself in a private contract. (Creating contracts requires you to train the skill Contracting I.) This will clear your ship hangar, and you can spawn a rookie ship. Then simply cancel or accept the contract to get your ships back. Sneaky!

TURBO SPAWNING

Suppose you want to roam around a few systems and gank some miners. You may be tempted not to bother spawning Concord, on the assumption that it takes 15 minutes per system out of your busy ganking schedule. Not so! You can rapidly prime multiple systems by using the undock trick. Here’s how it works:

First, prime one system in the usual manner, by simultaneously shooting a container with multiple rookie ships. After you get blown up, have your fleet (which will still be in pods) jump into the next system you want to prime (such as Halaima). Have your fleet of pods all dock in the same station, where a rookie ship will be waiting for each of you. Simultaneously undock and wait a few seconds for multiple Concord to arrive/spawn.

You get the idea now. Once blown up, warp your pods to the next system on your list and undock from a station there. And so on. Within a few minutes, you’ll already have all those systems ready to go, for the whole day. You’ll only need to wait out the final 15 minute timer, during which your scout(s) can search for targets in all those systems.

Lesson Six: Rapidly prepare multiple systems for ganks by simultaneously undocking your fleet in rookie ships in one system after the next.

To become an excellent gank fleet commander, learn these lessons and never be bothered by Concord again!

I can confirm he is correct from experience. You can move CONCORD from a belt by just committing a criminal act in close proximity to the CONCORD spawn you wish to move. If there is only one spawn it is easy to move with a criminal act anywhere, but if there are multiple spawns in different places, you need to make sure your criminal act is the closest to the CONCORD spawn you wish to move.

However, it is important you simultaneously undock (or commit a criminal act) with sufficient pilots to move the number of CONCORD spawns. If there are three CONCORD spawns on a gate, and you undock with only two pilots with criminal timers, one CONCORD spawn will remain on that gate.

Plan accordingly.

1 Like
74

Aw man, is she gone? Shame.

3 Likes
75

https://eve-search.com/thread/485009-1/page/all

1 Like
76

Now I has a sad :sob:

1 Like
77

My only complaint about highsec ganking, (Which has to exist sadly, as it keeps everyone from just officer fitting everything in highsec.) is how easy it is to do ever since CCP made destroyers do too much dps, and they added attack battlecruisers, which were basically added for the sole purpose of ganking. Time to kill being too low is the problem, not suicide ganking itself.

1 Like
78

So don’t go to Uedama. Problem solved.

79

In fairness, suicide ganks happen all along the trade routes, not JUST Uedama. Had a alliancemate once that thought hauling a fortizar in an orca upto 2 jumps from uedama (Stopping before reaching it.) solo without fleet support would be safe. Needless to say, the rest of us didn’t make it in time to save him once he realized his serious mistake. He won’t make that mistake twice.

80

Hahahahahahaha :grin: Teach him how to spot the scanning scouts. That’ll save him some day. :slight_smile: