Compression tax

[Wadiest_Yong]

You got the wrong impression there m8, the post started with lol and ended with a Not much more I can do to indicate that this was intended as funny, as opposed to getting worked up a little when reading the word “tax”. I understand now that you take yourself very seriously.

[Pan_Dora1 (Pan Dora)]

@Wadiest_Yong

As I have said in earlier posts, I have no problems with you structure owners charging for anything you provide to the “customer”, as long as it is balanced game wise. That balance could be the introduction of compression services in select NPC stations as well,

So you feel entitle to get the compression service at NPC stations.

@Wadiest_Yong

It’s fine if you feel entitled to get an extra free income on the merits of being space rich enough to put up a structure.

The structure don’t just deploy itself when someone get “space rich enough” nor it runs indefinitely on it own the moment it get deployed.

@Wadiest_Yong

It’s also fine that others feel entitled to additional ways to separate you from your extra income.

And no one said it is not a valid way to enjoy the game. In fact, I live in space where the group shouting “it is ours” can actually back up that claim. So far is my alliance shouting.

[Pan_Dora1 (Pan Dora)]

@Raptor_Kane

‘EVE pros’

I keep seen people mentioning those but never found any evidence they really exist.

[Raptor_Kane]

@Pan_Dora1

I keep seen people mentioning those but never found any evidence they really exist.

I call ‘EVE pros’ anyone who’s been playing the game between 5 to 10 years. I know the word “pro” is far fetched as to EVE is concerned but I can’t find another term for it and “vet” is too extreme for what I mean.

[Pan_Dora1 (Pan Dora)]

Got it.
My tongue in cheek comment was a allusion to the fact that what people say is often not what they do. The guy saying that mining is for losers may as well be the guy with a bunch of mining alts funding his “elite pvp” habits.

[Raptor_Kane]

@Pan_Dora1

My tongue in cheek comment was a allusion to the fact that what people say is often not what they do. The guy saying that mining is for losers may as well be the guy with a bunch of mining alts funding his “elite pvp” habits.

I don’t doubt it. There’s a chasm between what people say and the truth.

[Wadiest_Yong]

@Pan_Dora1

So you feel entitle to get the compression service at NPC stations.

Not at all. I just point out that in the general spirit of game balance an additional income should be counteracted by either an alternative (like compressing in NPC stations) or by other methods to balance risk/reward. Just asking for new, risk free income is making an unbalanced suggestion.

@Pan_Dora1

The structure don’t just deploy itself when someone get “space rich enough” nor it runs indefinitely on it own the moment it get deployed.

What I question are the true motives behind the demand for compression tax. I ran three with a small corp, until they no longer provided profit, and then were taken down and sold, having fulfilled their purpose. You want it easy.

@Pan_Dora1

And no one said it is not a valid way to enjoy the game. In fact, I live in space where the group shouting “it is ours” can actually back up that claim. So far is my alliance shouting.

Not exactly what I was writing about, but I get the general idea. Sure, it’s fun to see a group make such a bold claim. Expect some more threads about ganking in hisec. That they can back up their claim is no miracle, anyone who sells mining permits can back up that claim or is out of business soon. The real back up is when they draw the attention of an organized group who opposes the claim. But hisec being hisec, little chance of that. They’d rather take to the forums and demand risk reduction and ccpleasedosumtin, right ?

So it’s fine if players want to tax other players, but not so fine when ccp introduces a new tax or increases the rates ? Interesting standpoint, but I don’t share it.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Qia_Kare

But compression? Compression is strictly a tool for taking resources away from the local economy and dumping it into a foreign economy instead.

Thankyou.

As someone who does this A LOT the lack of compression tax means i don’t pay anything to local refineries and instead can move it all to Perimeter T2 Refinery.

And if they add compression to moon ore then it’s only going to be even more taken away from local markets.

[Pan_Dora1 (Pan Dora)]

@Wadiest_Yong

the general spirit of game balance

That is just a fancy way to say “my opinion”. Similarly to how charging for access to the service is a fancy way to charge for the service itself.

@Wadiest_Yong

What I question are the true motives behind the demand for compression tax.

And people replied: is just because they prefer to charge the service itself rather than utilize something else as proxy tax. The service will be taxed either way, why do you think a proxy tax is preferred from a direct tax?

@Wadiest_Yong

Expect some more threads about ganking in hisec.

I’d be surprise if ever people stop to create such threads

@Wadiest_Yong

That they can back up their claim is no miracle, anyone who sells mining permits can back up that claim or is out of business soon.

That is not how what i call “back up the claim”. This is: Solyaris Chtonium - DOTLAN :: EveMaps you can also check the in game map if you want.

@Wadiest_Yong

So it’s fine if players want to tax other players, but not so fine when ccp introduces a new tax or increases the rates ? Interesting standpoint, but I don’t share it.

Why are you misrepresenting me? I posted above:

@Pan_Dora1

But something like a minimum tax that goes to some NPC might work.

How is that “not being fine with CCP introducing new tax”?

[Aedaxus]

Yes, but only if npc stations start to provide compression too as it should be in a competitive market.

[Wadiest_Yong]

You can continue shouting that taxes are fair if you’re the one taxing, without making it a balanced proposition.

@Pan_Dora1

they prefer to charge the service itself rather than utilize something else as proxy tax

as if they didn’t use a proxy tax… many people, by nature, tax as much as they can get away with.

Still, the real questions haven’t been answered. They probably never will. The keyword is entitlement.

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

@Qia_Kare

But compression? Compression is strictly a tool for taking resources away from the local economy and dumping it into a foreign economy instead.

But it does inject isk into that economy as the people gathering those resources now have a viable way to get them sold. Without this many areas just don’t have anyone being to far from a major market. This has been made worse by the changes to HS connectivity.

[Lugh_Crow-Slave]

@Wadiest_Yong

What is the difference between charging for what is currently free

It’s not currently free… you’re just not the one paying for it at the moment

[Qia_Kare]

I think your idea of an economy and mine are different in some regard.

In your example, I figure the people exporting the goods to a major hub for sale are also spending their isk in that hub, ergo there is still no economy local to where the resources were initially obtained.

I have no love for large trade hubs. I prefer to buy from and sell to small local economies. In my case, I used to do this in Ala where I would deliberately use the local market to buy and sell goods. If the local market could get what I needed, I’d try Dixie, and only go to Jita as an absolute last resort.

While I think Wadiest Yong’s position is logically indefensible (somehow people using a service for their own benefit for free that costs a station owner money to provide are not the greedy ones), I do not like compression as a service at all and would prefer to see it eradicated from all structures to encourage people to make sale or use of their materials closer to home.

In lieu of eradication, the simple separation of reprocessing and compression such that they can be enabled or disabled independently would be better than the current status quo. I think it makes sense for a station provider to be able to tax any and all services they provide, and that if they choose to be unfair in their practices that’s what I call a conflict driver. After all, you can’t provide the service without putting down a big floating target. However, whether a person can tax for compression or not is not a major concern of mine so much as the free service being inextricably linked to reprocessing, the two of which are mutually exclusive.

[Wadiest_Yong]

As I wrote before, it’s not up to the rest of us to pay for your structure, just because you see a free service as an opportunity to demand extra income without increased risk. You should make your structure profitable or worthwhile via the many uses already available. Demanding more taxes at this point in time, with the current state of the game is cringe worthy at the very least, and unbalanced as a single minded proposition at best.

Quid pro quo.

[Wadiest_Yong]

@Qia_Kare

While I think Wadiest Yong’s position is logically indefensible (somehow people using a service for their own benefit for free that costs a station owner money to provide are not the greedy ones)

That, to repeat ad nauseam, is not my position.

Compression is a free mechanism in the game, no different from tethering and repairing in a structure that allows access. There is no difference, they all give advantages. If their reprocessing business is failing for some reason, tough. Let them take out the module and sell it… no more “omg I deliver a free compression service to these profiteers” issues.
Claiming there is a difference between those mechanisms/services is what is logically indefensible.
Claiming that there should not be compensation for having a new service fee is an unbalanced demand.

[Qia_Kare]

How is it not your position? You believe people are entitled to free compression regardless of the cost to the station owner, correct?

[Pan_Dora1 (Pan Dora)]

@Wadiest_Yong

You can continue shouting that taxes are fair if you’re the one taxing, without making it a balanced proposition.

I already asked: why are you misrepresenting me? I’m not shouting, I don’t own a structure I want to use for collect compression taxes. I’m the one calmly asking why, in your book, paying the tax via a proxy is fine and paying it directly is not.

@Wadiest_Yong

The keyword is entitlement.

It seems.
You feel entitled to a answer and yet you don’t accept it is the answer people actually gave (and makes perfect sense)
You feel entitled to a “Truth” fabricated in your own head.

[Wadiest_Yong]

Because it is not, it’s what YOU made of it. In the mean time, everyone here fails to answer the very simple question: how is compressing any different from any other free service like repairing and tethering ? Because your POS consumes more fuel because of the mod ? Take it out and sell it. Or perhaps launch a better suggestion for a separate compression module instead of a combined compression/reprocessing one - in which case the rest of us will still ask for an alternative, to avoid monopolies, in the form of e.g., NPC station compression.

[Qia_Kare]

Tethering does not eat into the revenue of another service the station owner provides for a fee. Tethering is free, or a value added service that is not specifically paid for.

Does that cover the difference between the two adequately?