Constructive Feedback on PvE Gameplay and High-sec Experience

[Glenduil]

Why do you think I stopped doing Abyssals? There is no defense. You HAVE to take in a really expensive ship that cannot survive a small group of PvP destroyers. Your portal can be easily scanned down. They know exactly where you will appear.

No tactics can be employed. No fitting will work to survive the assault. They find you, you lose billions and everything you won in the Abyss.

That’s not my preferred style of play. The logical move is to never put yourself in that position.

It simply makes no logical sence to do Abyssals.

[Namdor]

@Pico_Mega

The term “High Security” naturally creates the expectation of a relatively safe environment, especially for newer and returning players. They soon discover that organized gank groups, multiple-account coordination, and highly predictable mechanics can turn even routine PvE activities into significant risks.

Fortunately, the game provides a canonical definition of what “High Security” actually means. It is:

If your expectations for high sec differ from what is provided above, the solution is to adjust your expectations to mesh with the rules of the game instead of expecting the rules of the game to be altered to conform to your expectations.

[Malak_Starfire]

@Glenduil

No tactics can be employed. No fitting will work to survive the assault. They find you, you lose billions and everything you won in the Abyss.

And yet people do a variety of things to survive a gank, or just avoid one altogether.

[Glenduil]

Can you please provide an example?

[Aiko_Danuja]

Have you considered that the only reason you make so much isk from abyssals is because they are supposed to be dangerous?

[Malak_Starfire]

Well aside from just using systems that aren’t near trade routes or mission hubs, you could have some friends scout your exit, be in logi, or an orca to quickly store the ship in when you exit. Honestly the number one thing is just system choice.

[Namdor]

Keep your orca on grid 150km away (cloaked or not, shouldn’t matter) as a scout, warp it down, stuff your abyssal ship into it while it’s still in immunity timer, and warp off in your pod?

Just thinking out loud here but I can’t recall any reason it wouldn’t work.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Glenduil

Why do you think I stopped doing Abyssals? There is no defense.

Glen, please. Just because YOU don’t know how to play the game, doesn’t mean there isn’t a defense. I can assure you that there are abyssal players who defend themselves successfully. No, I won’t tell you how (unless you pay 10 billion isk).

[Glenduil]

Aiko and her group do not stick to trade routes. Her band travels all over high sec.

[Malak_Starfire]

Wow, Aiko is so all knowing! Having people in all systems of hi sec! No way to survive! How can one possibly find a system among the thousands to print your isk!

[Namdor]

She is a princess, after all. Who knows how wide a net is cast by her realm’s security and information services.

[Glenduil]

You’re right that i don’t know everything about this game. I freely admit that. I also don’t risk tons of ISK without having solid plans in place. I don’t do trial and error when it gets expensive. I’m just weird like that.

[Arthur_Aihaken]

@Glenduil

Aiko and her group do not stick to trade routes. Her band travels all over high sec.

Excellent. I’ve been looking for a new activity…

[Sere_O_Asis]

@Pico_Mega

As you’ve asked for community reactions, this is mine.

Personally, I don’t think Abyssal space should be an isolated instance. In my opinion, I think this design decision was a mistake for this game, considering it is a persistent, open-world experience.

Also, I think we are all just players of the game, dividing the player base into pvp and pve camps is an artificial construct. No player even enters a starter system after declaring their intention to only pvp or pve. There is no such division/option in the tutorial, we’re just introduced to the “game.”

And my final thoughts on your words is a reaction to this:

@Pico_Mega

but by whether an experience feels engaging, fair, and enjoyable over the long term

I’ve never believed “fairness” entered into anything EVE related. Challenging, engaging, and enjoyable, I’ll agree with.

But fairness? No.

Personally, I think that is a delusion some players use to comfort themselves when the game’s reality does not match their expectations of the game.

I don’t have the exact quote to hand, but I am reminded of a CCP employee writing on the forums something along the lines that EVE was a test. That it would knock you down, and basically drag you through the mud, and if you got up…you were winning the game. It was that philosophy that attracted me to EVE, that challenge.

So fairness is not EVE, in my opinion. It’s not even in the same room.

[Arthur_Aihaken]

I don’t think T5/T6 Abyssals should be banned from high-sec - nor do I think they should automatically incur a suspect flag regardless of system security level. I think Abyssals are fine as is.

What we could use is either a mission overhaul -or- NPC/AI generation of Freelance jobs to “jazz” things up a bit.

[Syzygium]

@Glenduil

Can you please provide an example?

I have survived every single gank attempt on my C5/C6 runner. Just by maneuvering, overheating and a good fit.

• you dont spawn at 0 to them, usually between 2000 and 3000m. They need ~3-4 seconds to lock you. Overheat your AB and burn away from them. They need to agress to apply webs and lose a ton of DPS while not being in their blasters optimal range. And the first aggression starts the CONCORD timer.
• instantly overheat everything. Reppers, Harderners, Guns.
• kill them. A destroyer trying to approach you will be dead in 2 volleys.
• 5-6 seconds into the fight, fire your Assault Damage Control module (Faction), which makes you nearly invulnerable for 12.5 seconds. At the end of it’s effect you will be at full tank (because your reppers will rep your up to full during that time) and they will have lost at least 3 ships to you already.

At this point, it’s only like another 5 seconds to survive until CONCORD ends the whole thing. Been there, done that.

[Honzas_Krutas]

@Pico_Mega Just wow, Others already pointed out that your post is one big contradiction. You claim you don’t want to remove PvP and don’t want to make game easier, yet it is exactly that what you want to achieve in regards of the activity you are doing.

@Pico_Mega

Supporting these players is therefore not contrary to the philosophy of EVE.

Did you know that the PvP players are supporting the PVE players?

If there was no destruction, there would be no demand. Without demand, everything you mine, everything you loot is gonna be worthless.

@Pico_Mega

However, after successfully completing the encounter, they return to a fixed and predictable location where organized groups may already be waiting.

Yes I agree that it is stupid design. To be able to create instanced dungeon wherever you want. What is more stupid is that once you create it, nobody else can go inside and kill you there. But that is actually logical because if that would be possible it would be abused to duo the encounter and reduce the difficulty significantly. I also hate the design of kill rooms and time limit. Worst content there is. And of course the exit spot is stupid too.

But, despite that. Abyssal gates are the type of ganking where the player has the most options how to outsmart gankers. No other type of content allows so many choices to the player. You don’t even need to multibox a second account. All you need to do is always assume that the gankers are out there waiting for you. I won’t tell you exactly how to survive, just that the options, several options, do exists.

You are flying one of, if not the one, most overpowered ships in the game. I’ve seen Gilas to survive 30 coercers in 0.5. Thats how riddiculously tanky it is. Just a hint.

Next, you say that the problem is that the exit spot is predetermined and predictable. Okay true, but how does this differ from any other form of pve? Mining is super predictable, the ships wil always be at one of the belts or belt anomaly. Ratting, ships will come to scanned signature or land to fixed anomaly. The least predictable are escalations and mission pockets as on those the gankers cannot be waiting before target, but they can be scanned down as well. It is just few days when we had similar “contructive feedback” thread about gankers killing ships in mission pockets. And the OP claimed there is no counterplay to that. There never is in the eyes of those who get ganked…

In fact the difference is that abyssal dungeons offer you as the runner the flexibility to decide where that exit spot will be. Just a hint.

EDIT: oh an btw, you have single abyss ship loss on zkill. How many runs have you successfully completed before you got finally ganked?

[Pico_Mega]

Thank you for sharing your experience.

What stands out to me isn’t whether Abyssal Deadspace is profitable or whether experienced players can reduce the risks.

What stands out is that your experience led you to stop doing content that you otherwise enjoyed.

That is exactly the kind of player experience I was trying to discuss. Different players will naturally reach different conclusions, but hearing perspectives like yours is valuable because it shows how game mechanics can influence long-term playstyle choices.

Thank you for adding another perspective to the discussion.

[Pico_Mega]

Thank you for taking the time to explain your strategy in such detail.

This is exactly the kind of practical experience that makes discussions like this valuable. It’s useful to hear from someone who has successfully dealt with these situations rather than simply saying “adapt.”

I also appreciate that your post shows there are strategies that can improve the chances of survival.

At the same time, I think it also highlights an interesting point: surviving these encounters requires a high level of knowledge, preparation, piloting skill, and often a very specific ship and fitting.

That doesn’t necessarily mean the current design is wrong, but it does raise the question of how accessible that experience is for newer, returning, or less experienced PvE players.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Pico_Mega

it does raise the question of how accessible that experience is for newer, returning, or less experienced PvE players.

Tier 6 abyssals are not supposed to be accessible for new players.