And then you go to the fitting window and see all sorts of terms and figures with no explanation of what they are. The ‘descriptions’ of modules are often extremely vague as to what they actually do. Nothing is obvious, and often relevant info is in several different places. Sure it all becomes straightforward once one is used to it…but for a noob it is all badly explained and meaningless jargon, with nothing being at all obvious.
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Oh yes… one of those “studies” conducted by those who have every interests the thing be used in the first place? Yeah, I know those “studies”.
I also read a study that they are full of ■■■■ but that one was never published.
I see where you’re coming from but I don’t think you fully appreciate the scope of what’s covered by the CSM.
Again, I’m talking generalities here, so no shade to the developers!
Let’s take citadel balance as an example. How does 3rd party tool development help assess this critical - and controversial - topic? Or high sec mission incomes, or LP store balance? Why does a third party app developer have a better idea of the playerbase’s feelings on the acceptable level of monetisation in the game?
Like I say man, I get where you’re coming from and agree to a point, but only to that point. Player representatives cover a hell of a lot more ground than the tools people use, UI, etc. Many third party app developers are widely plugged-in to the game’s communities, but this means those in that situation are probably equally as capable of running for CSM as anyone else is, so the point is largely moot.
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Again i think you fail to understand my intention is not to advocate developers becoming CSM members , though why not if thats there choice .
CCP doesn’t even listen much to developers on their Github pages for SSO or ESI so what one think they will care more if they’re on an e-political body such as the CSM? They don’t even give a heads up on changes to the OAuth2 payload.
Dressing up in wizard hats at a drunkfest isn’t going to work either.
Not sure what fancy dress has to do with tool intergration , but hey each to there own
Those who seen the CSM behaviour will know what it refers to.
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We have suggested many times that CCP incorporate some of the best and most common tools folks use outside of the game into the game, as well as providing in-game infrastructure to make life for the smaller and mid-sized groups easier. Most groups don’t have the ability to put together enterprise scale infrastructure like Goons have, and the game doesn’t really give them the ways to do that. We’ve also been telling pretty hard (largely Innominate and Ken Feld, as they have the closest relationships with their IT folks) about issues the ESI.
Why hasn’t CCP integrated more of these tools in the game? Well, honestly, if players are doing these tools for free, why would CCP spend the resources to duplicate that effort? I know many people have complained about the power that Zkill or other sites have over the way the game is played, but Squizz provides a great service and he does it for donations. I don’t know if it’s a good idea to expect CCP to replicate or take over the stuff players have created.
As for the CSM, Steve Ronuken is the longest serving CSM of all time (and he’s running again) and he’s been the voice for the third party devs for a while to CCP. Even in the popularity contest that is the CSM, he’s win more times than anybody (although he’s tied with Innominate now). I think that kind of explodes some of OPs concerns.
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Well Id say while there are implications for the third party developers if CCP did decide to implement tools similar to those already developed it would be a great thing for the game .
I suppose an obvious question is should CCP reward 3rd party developers if they do choose to do something similar to something already produced .
Difficult to know it would seem fair they receive some reconpence for there work but can CCP really afford to say anything being done is out of bounds from there perspective , surely not and i dont think anyone would expect them too . So I see there are issues that would need to be considered .
My point stems from the fact diffrent aspects of the game require diffrent tools to be played successfully, should developing players really be expected to have half a dozen browsers open and a couple of apps running to get the most from the experience New Eden provides or is that more rightly CCP’s responsibility ?
Supporting the game via creating outside content for players that assist inside the game may hold alterative motives that go beyond the bounds of just Eve Online as they utilise their skills.
A CSM could also possess the same skills but is that necessary? I think not. Their attention towards Eve Online helping supporting players using the current tools that are open for everyone. I like the current method and am really happy with Mike. I would like to see Aiko as our next CSM and please no hate!
Get her to stand and vote for her then would be my advice
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