You can’t optimize it. Moon rocks can be 100s of km away from each other. You can’t have the entire fleet 2,000 m from the Orca and hit those rocks. It’s impossible and you know it.
You can’t warp to an Orca that isn’t over 150km away from you. If you’re 60km away, you HAVE to slow boat.
CCP hard-coded that in. It’s their game and their rules. Warp drive is limited to great distances while Orca compression is limited to 2,000m. Rocks on a moon are not close to each other.
Prove me wrong. Try it for one day. I challenge you.
Ah so you don’t mine a whole moon. Your entire fleet all sits around one rock, shoots it, and goes home. Got it. I guess High Sec miners are smarter. An Orca’s fleet buff has a range of about 70-80km. So no warping. But you want to cut that range down to 2,000km so the entire fleet has to all sit around one rock. Your moon structure pulls a hundred rocks from the moon and you only pick one of them… for your entire fleet.
You do the slowest mining of any fleet I’ve ever seen. And I pilot a Skiff when solo mining. You’re slower than that if your whole fleet fires at one rock and one rock only.
Ahhh so you do admit every ship needs its own compressor. Ahhh finally some honesty. Removing shipboard compression will make everyone train up their own compressor alt. I would. Fleet buffs are meaningless without it. I’d have an alt in training in seconds if they ever got rid of it.
None of those Porpoises is running siege, so no compressing.
Each of the miners wants to be in range of boosts, yes, but compression isn’t necessary at every spot to make mining worth it.
Mining support ships are invaluable even without compression. Their huge ore holds and boosts support a mining fleet well.
And each support ship can support many miners, not just one.
It seems like you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying, so let me repeat my point again:
Shipboard compression did not have to be a remote buff.
Mining would work fine if compression only affected the ore in the support ship, at the cost of some extra effort for the support ship pilot, a role which is 0 APM and thus AFK at the moment.
What a stupid discussion, really… Fleet Mining with dozens of Hulks + 1 Orca wasn’t a problem ever. Even without shipboard compression. It’s really ridiculous, wtf am I reading here?
The normal way is that all miners just mine until they are full, then jettison their ore, the Orca tractors those in (or has an MTU dropped who tractors in the contis). Then it is moved from there to the Orcas ore hold and compressed. At the end of the OP the corp keeps the ore and everyone gets paid by checking the fleet logs / mining ledger. Or everyone gets their ore contracted. It’s really simple and it gives the Orca Pilot an active job and a meaning, it has a social aspect of cooperation and requires some trust, but also builds trust over successful mining OPs, which creates bonds and a social structure within corporations.
All that was thrown out of the window for massmultiboxconvenience. Bad decision.
with fleet boosts, a hulk can what?? reach up to 45km…damn that is practically the entire belt in most HS sys from the center of it, sometimes the entire range end to end
Before the new comp modules you had to haul moon ore to the athanor on site to compress it…
SO, you mine fill 1 orca up, warp it to athanor as the other orca lands to next be filled…
Then the FC at end of op would confer with the Athanors mining ledger and dole out ISK or compressed rocks each person/corp mined.
That is how it was done, and can still be done that way, I use a lot orca, and i use a lot of exhumers…and i say compression should be in Upwells or Rorqs period.
Well, I am not against compression on field in general because it gives a nice motivation to enter Industrial Mode, which kills a lot of Orcas and Porpoises actually. Which is good for the game because it generates content.
However, I would return to the old systems of making it a “job”, which requires a blueprint, a skill and time. And the lower class ships could of course compress less ore in the same timeframe than the bigger ones, adding a natural progression and some breakpoints where using a larger commandship or multiple smaller ones becomes benefitial. Strategic choices, rewards for more risk…
Yeah, it works great there, but it’s not far enough for ice mining or moon mining. But, it’s great when mining Veldspar! You’re absolutely right about that! 100%! When mining Veldspar, it’s absolutely king!
No it won’t. It’s too convenient for massmultiboxers. And thats the prime clientel now.
Nonetheless it is important to remind everyone that it was a bad decision and explain why it was one. Every now and then people come up with the big question why EVE can’t hold players and the simple truth is: many of these small mistakes sum up to a boring, massmultiboxed, grinding environment that has thrown away the need to cooperate, the rewards of building relations and trust and a social structure within groups that make people stay for years. The challenge for reaping great rewards for those who risk more was thrown overboard, everyone feels entitled to get “more, more, more” all the time, with close to zero effort.
A developer for a sandbox game shall never give the players what they want. But what they need. Because if you give them what they want, you just feed them fat, lazy and in the end demotivated.
Aren’t we talking (the proposed mining changes) about giving null-sec miners what they want vs. what they need? More at the expense of every other region?
Mineral prices have crashed within the last week - probably based on everyone trying to liquidate their stockpiles while they still could.
So was there an actual issue with mining or was this primarily due to stockpiling and speculation? I mean, the minerals market has already adjusted - so what happens now post mining changes?
It’s not exactly “nimble”, so I’m not sure it would take over as a solo mining ship. There’s also the 10x sticker price compared to most T2 hulls…
If I had +2 mining lasers (even unbonused) on my Orca it would make it a lot more fun to utilize. I don’t really see anything wrong with using it in a solo capacity.