90 groups, and over 25 different CSM’s say its problem and you think its a fake excuse..
what happens when a group gets so big conflict doesn’t happen.. stagnates and gets boring.. i hear that ALOT about null about how boring it can be..
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I dont think they understand anything about human behaviour around changes like this.
They expect that coalitions will break up or have unique ways of living in null. While the obvious solution is be absorbed or we will make you into nothing. They put so much emphasis on alliance identity while no one wants their alliance gone because they didnt merge. And how no one is still adressing any specifics but just throwing vague ideas around.
This is not adressing Stagnation.
This is not adressing smaller alliances not being able to take a foothold in NS.
This is nothing but another mechanic to have pvp around because your JBs ran out of energy and some of ur fleet is left behind to be picked on.
Or the increase in gate to gate travel to conserve capacitor which again increases pvp activity for cloaky gatecampers.
Are we adressing those concerns with this or we ignore any broader gameplay interaction around the proposed changes?
From an outsider’s perspective, there is no difference between what is being called in this thread a mega alliance and that of a coalition. Alliances will have to choose if they want to have their identity be that of an alliance that can hold it’s own or merge with the alliance that was basically providing the protection anyways. I’m sure coalitions will still exist, but they should be more like allied empires than that of a hegemon and it’s vassals, or protector and it’s protectorates.
Who are those groups and CSMs? Same as our dear OP? Person who was hiding in NPC stations until Imperium opened drone lands and now he is claiming to be 0.0 alliance? Problem is that all the crying is actually about people shooting back, but if they were honest about it not even CCP could support it. So they claim power projection as a problem.
Now think for a second and explain to us all, how is making it harder to get around going to increase amount of combat? If you can’t reach your enemy how will you fight him? Are we to send nasty eve mails to each other or what?
What CCP devs and their elite pvp buddies hope will happen is more free ganks in space, but, sadly for them, people are not stupid and will not undock if the risk is too high. In other words they will undock defenceless ships only when they have backing of combat ships and our dear elite pvpers will again cry about power projection.
did you read YP2’s post?? apparently not.
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I did. He is full of it. He starts with the premise that making it more difficult to move will increase amount of combat. Again, how exactly is it supposed to do that?
Then he justifies CCPs “solution” to the problem that doesn’t exist and is in fact that elite pvpers dislike people shooting back but don’t want to clearly state. Writing a lot doesn’t mean that it makes sense. It’s just sycophantic sucking up to CCP, maybe he too hopes that CCP will hire him.
Fixed this for you. Yp2 would know more about that than I would as would all of sedition. I’m not a CSM, i don’t know how all of null works, so i tend to listen to people who are not “grr goons” or init, and def not listening to anyone in frat.
If you have a potential solution to the problem of stagnation in null, lack of competition, then by all means, explain away. Otherwise all you will be is just someone who is part of the problem.
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What? How is restricting movement is solving stagnation when attacking becomes more of a chore and defenders can still move without much impairment under these proposed changes? The further you move the more time it will take. That is what they propose.
We are not here to solve stagnation. Thats what whatever orgnaisation is developing this game claims to do with these proposed changes. But what they propose leads to even more stagnation.
You dont have to be a genius to see that. Understanding where the devs behind these changes come from is step one to understand their intentions.
Also we all know CCP rebranded to FC (Fenris Creations) so theres no point calling out out as not CCP. They are the same devs jsut call themselves something else. We all know we arent talking about China.
That post is mambo jambo just as the Original post by Okami where he states the same thing 6 times in a single paragraph. Axhind is right just because its long it doesnt mean it makes sense.
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That is what Fenris, CSM, and outspoken players are trying to do, so explain a way to fix it, be productive. So just cry into the void and not have a chance of influencing the game.
Large part of that stagnation is self-inflicted. CCP has been pushing elite pvp narrative and playstyle for decades by now. Is it so strange that big chunk of people are super risk averse? Imagine if their kb showed some red? The absolute horror!!! Especially if you know that you can just hide in NPC station then why take any fight that you are not absolutely sure of winning?
Look at PL, that is the only way they have played eve since day one. Step on much smaller group and then proclaim how elite and awesome you are. Be busy with something else when a comparable opponent shows up. And they are hardly the only ones with that playstyle. If only playstyle that CCP rewards is shitting on the smaller entities then it’s not exactly surprising when those disappear from the game.
Solution is for CCP to stop listening to people who very clearly want to boost their own playstyle to the detriment of the game. Then let the sandbox deal with it. Players have done far more to encourage new groups in 0.0 than CCP has. Look at drone lands. They exist and people there are getting better organised and with some luck will be a real block one day. That is possible because Imperium is protecting them while they grow. So that random shitlords can’t go there and glass it to feed their ego. They know that if they tried Imperium would show up and then it would be one of those unfun fights where the opponent shoots back and you have a realistic chance of losing.
Asher is completely right, biggest issue with 0.0 is mentality that CCP and elite pvpers have fostered. If you are not allowed to lose then every fight is just a gank and people get tired of getting ganked so they either join big three, move to NPC stations, or just quit EVE. In the end elite pvpers will kill their own game style just like olmeca did. Because at some point only Imperium, FRT and Init will remain and they don’t have a slightest chance in hell against any of us.
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Maybe just take 5 minutes. Sit down away from the computer. And think for yourself for a second. Im not here to offer you a solution yet i can see that what they propose as one will have the opposit effect.
You dont have to blindly believe what others claim to be absolute true. Who are these CSM members you talk about? Who are those “outspoken” players? Someone claims to be knowing of things he cant say and vaguely mentions CSM and FCs of big alliances and you think everyone is backing whatever this vague idea is.
That is what they say they want to do. But that is in fact not what they are trying to do nor what they want to do. CCP renamed themselves to fenris creation so that devs could put FC in front of their name. Something they didn’t manage in game so this was the best they could do. Pathetic doesn’t even begin to describe it.
It’s always about enabling elite pvpers and their ganks and, the best of all, it backfires every single time that CCP does it. No wonder they are mad at players for not playing “their” game correctly. How dare we not just provide infinite free kills to their buddies…
It’s been a main topic for several CSMs now. It’s been the focus of a lot of what Goons have been doing the past few years. You being out of the loop is not my problem. You don’t want this change to happen, the onus is on you to try and stop that change. If you don’t want to propose an alternate, then don’t be surprised when the change does happen.
I’m not the one making the claims, Fenris is. CSM members are. It’s what they’ve been running on.
Goons moved to shake up null, PH died, so they setup Dronelands to try and foster smaller alliances. Goons move to attack Frat, but then they were able to defend (somewhat) from two sides. (Also the issue of being able to headshot keepstars with cheap fits but that’s another issue). Force projection played into Frat’s defense, it will also play into Goon’s defense if they also face a multifront war.
Again though if you don’t want this change to happen, you should be providing alternate solutions. Otherwise this change will go through.
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Long-time player, not all of it on this character. I’ve been around since jump bridges were fueled POS structures that allowed passworded access.
That’s what I’m basing this off of.
See this is the problem. So you think force projection is what saved frat. But fail to see how this is not going to change that at all. On a defensive viewpoint this is doing nothing. We dont know any specifics. But they would like to implement zones that clearly help defense and would constrain movement the further you go from your selected capital.
Defending under these changes becomes easier than attacking. The logistics of establishing a forward base to supply an attack become a larger chore. There is no incentive to attack. Maybe work on that first.
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The person behind the thread i posted is a csm member, they tried to get fenris to take a slightly different approach, but fenris is pushing ahead
As someone who was there, what drugs are you on and why would you do that to your poor brain?
What caused the death of that keepstar was a bad fit that we accidentally found out about when Init reffed it as a joke. There was no force projection defending that keepstar and space, there was FRT fighting back instead of doing the elite pvp thing of hiding in an NPC station. We just barely managed to kill it (did cost a pretty penny but still fun thing to do).
Force projection that CCP is pretending to talk about did not enter the picture in any way. Nobody used any JBs. We didn’t because they were not available (takes 3 weeks to get sov level), and FRT didn’t because it was their home system.
Notice how neither FRT nor we ran to CCP to demand nerfs when our respective keepstars died. At the same time elite pvpers are constantly crying to CCP about people shooting back.
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They tried to make CCP do jump fatigue when using JBs. That’s the only difference. The main issue is not the shoddy implementation, but the idea that making moving fleets harder is going to somehow increase amount of combat in the game. What level of incompetent or on drugs do you have to be to fall for that one?
Of course, since CCP devs and groups they hail from hope to make it more difficult to respond to incursion into your space, in hopes of getting more free ganks, it does make some sense. Except that they, as always, forget that players are not idiots and will not keep undocking ships for elite pvpers to gank. They will either move in towards more central and secure locations or go do something else. Since elite pvpers will not get their free ganks they will keep crying about force projection and CCP will keep making changes until next big drop of player numbers scares them enough to do something intelligent instead of pushing the elite pvp agenda.
This cycle has been repeating several times since I started playing in 2006 so it is not exactly something unseen.